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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

prostitute use

337 replies

BeatendownGF · 01/08/2015 08:09

I was talking to my DP of two years last night about stag dos and the issue of prostitutes came up. Whilst I am aware that DP received oral sex from a prostitute in Thailand a couple of years back, he has always maintained that he was in a bar (drunk) and the lady just got under the table and started doing her thing before he even realised what had happened. He also told me he viewed it as a stupid mistake. Whilst obviously not overjoyed by this, I could live with it because he regretted it and I thought he viewed it just as a stupid mistake.

However, last night it emerged that he also went to a brothel on the same holiday and received oral sex. He claims he hasn't lied to me and thought he had told me about the two incidents. I know this isn't true because it is not the sort of thing you forget really is it? Hmm

When I raised concerns about the fact that I felt he had lied to me he told me that he didn't see anything wrong with what he had done and that the majority of men would find it hard to resist sex on a plate. When I told him I thought he was better than that and that I felt he had exploited possibly vulnerable women (who often don't have a career choice) he told me that if he was single he would do the same again, as this is what happens on lads holidays and the ladies in Thailand were happy and could do worse than him.

AIBU to have lost trust in him and be devastated by his attitude?

OP posts:
rabbitstew · 02/08/2015 12:41

Some men are sad and lonely and can't get sex any other way. Some do with prostitutes things that they are too embarrassed to do with people they have a proper relationship with. Some want more sex than they can get given willingly for free. Some like to hurt and demean women and prostitutes are an excellent opportunity to do that. Some just see sex with a prostitute as a financial transaction in which they are released from any responsibility to see them as a human being with thoughts and feelings - they aren't paying for thoughts and feelings, they are paying for a body on which to enact their fantasies/scratch an itch.

Spanoo · 02/08/2015 12:47

Ah - sorry for misquoting you whirl

I think the reason that I'm trying to question some of the extreme opinions of the DP and his friend, is because this is someone's partner that they have spent time with, saw a future with, and who overall we know little about. I think a lot of other people's issues are getting leaked into him and that doesn't seem entirely fair. I don't know - or maybe he is just a bit of a scum bag then!

Sorry OP - I'm positive that you will find a way through this and move on with your life to happier times.

BertrandRussell · 02/08/2015 12:49

"i have not seen it myself is not the same as it does not exist. are you that dense?

No. You said that only 1 in 1000 prostitutes in Thailand is under age. When asked how you know, you said a) because underage prostitution is illegal and b) because that is what your observation suggests.

These two statements are so ridiculous that the only possible explanation is that you are an exploitation apologist. Which is a disgusting thing for a man to be. And if anything, an even more disgusting thing for a woman to be.

Spanoo · 02/08/2015 12:52

Wow - whirl - sorry you took it that way. Was an honest mistake because lots of people have been talking about child abuse.

I'm outta here. Good luck OP.

Itsmine · 02/08/2015 12:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Itsmine · 02/08/2015 13:15

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Spanoo · 02/08/2015 13:18

Agreed itsmine. When I said that there is lots of sexual aggression in society, I wasn't saying that there are "sexually aggressive men all over the place" as whirl took it to mean. My point was that it is a societal issue - not something we can scapegoat individuals for such as the OP's DP and friend.

Also whirl as for you saying that I have "put (you?) into a box marked "hysterical woman who probably looks like the back end of a bus" - I never dreamt such a judgement about you.

However it was you that said "Anyone who makes up excuses and reasons, you have to wonder why they are so keen to give a pass to this man" - so I wonder what judgements you are making about me and others?

BertrandRussell · 02/08/2015 13:19

"'I mean as women we know, right, we know that lots of men are basically not very nice when it comes to..'

Ffs imagine if we read a 'I mean as a man we know lots of women...' Its called sexism It's derogatory stereotyping.

The male equivalent of misogyny is misandry for those 'all men are etc etc etc' out there."

Yeah, well, I would agree with you if there was an equal amount to exploitative porn involving men as victims, and if women regularly went on package holidays to developing countries to have paid sex with underage boys........

Lots of men does not mean "all men", or even "most men". It just means "lots of men". Lots of men are not very nice when it comes to sex. Fact.

Itsmine · 02/08/2015 13:29

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

StarlingMurmuration · 02/08/2015 13:30

I never understand how there can be a debate on whether its ok to use prostitutes. Imean, logically there may be some prostitutes who think it is a great career choice, but it's not going to be a majority, is it? Surely it's a well enough known fact that most prostitutes are at "best" coerced into it by drug addiction or poverty, or at worst forced into it?

rabbitstew · 02/08/2015 13:32

Or groomed into it.

LassUnparalleled · 02/08/2015 13:33

Where I take issue with what Whirling said is the as women we know part.

I don't know that some men have vile attitudes about prostitution and the sex "industry" because I'm a woman.

I know this in the same way that my husband knows it- by thinking about it and taking account of what I read about it.

BertrandRussell · 02/08/2015 13:34

"There doesn't have to be 'equal amounts' of anything for any reasonably intelligent person to understand that you don't label an entire gender based on the grubby habits of a few."

Hence the use of the word "lots" rather than "all".......

WhirlpoolGalaxyM51 · 02/08/2015 13:36

But women and girls do know that lots of men aren't very nice when it comes to sex.

This viewpoint is even supported by mainstream society FGS even when the mainstream view is that it is the fault of women and girls!

Society says that women and girls should "watch themselves", not get too drunk, never go off with a stranger, not walk alone after dark, nut wear clothes that are too revealing, tell someone when they are going on a blind date, not take unlicensed minicabs & etc & so forth. Why? Because while this is victim blaming tosh, it is because society takes the view that there are a lot of men about who are a risk to women and girls.

Look at threads on here about "small sexual assaults" - hardly any women have never had some kind of unwanted criminal sexual thing done to or at them - being wanked at, felt up, kerb crawled, and all the rest of it. And then there's the not criminal unwanted sexual things - the being followed, having stuff shouted at you, & etc

And then look at the news and the stories of all the children and young people being sexually exploited by groups of men across society. And then look at the stats for child abuse, and for rape.

Look at all of that stuff, and tell me, why, when a woman says "I mean as women we know, right, we know that lots of men are basically not very nice when it comes to sex" and tell me why you think that is so utterly, laughably ridiculous.

LassUnparalleled · 02/08/2015 13:38

I never understand how there can be a debate on whether its ok to use prostitutes

Nor me. It's so self-evidently wrong. I don't even see it as a feminist issue. It's just up there with, not meaning to be flippant, but battery hens and the death penalty. I'm not really interested in hearing arguments from anyone why any of the 3 are not self-evidently wrong.

Itsmine · 02/08/2015 13:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WhirlpoolGalaxyM51 · 02/08/2015 13:43

So as women we are not allowed to say "lots of men aren't very nice when it comes to sex", even when it's true?

Are women in the DRC allowed to say it? Women in South Africa? What about women who are working as prostitutes, all around the world, who don't want to be?

Is it only women in the UK who aren't allowed to state the bleeding obvious ie that lots of men aren't very nice when it comes to sex, or is this a global ban?

If it's a global ban on observing the nature of how lots of men behave when it comes to sex, ie they are not very nice, then that is an excellent result for those men, really, isn't it.

Itsmine · 02/08/2015 13:44

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BertrandRussell · 02/08/2015 13:47

Once again, you are ignoring the words "can" and "lots"

The only people who say that all men use porn, or no man would refuse "sex on a plate" as the disgusting phrase goes are the porn/prostitution apologists. The rest or us are always being mocked and shouted down for saying "No, not all men". We are frequently told we are in denial about our own men!

WhirlpoolGalaxyM51 · 02/08/2015 13:51

So it's NOT ridiculous to say that lots of men are not very nice when it comes to sex.

Good, because it's true Smile

Your point about what I said

'You see women know, we know what lots of men are like' - how depressing."

Yes it is depressing isn't it, to know that there are lots of men around who aren't very nice when it comes to sex, and that some of them can afford to purchase the bodies of other people to take that "not very nice"ness out on.

Itsmine · 02/08/2015 13:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LassUnparalleled · 02/08/2015 13:54

Whirling The thread is about prostitution.

No-one is saying women are not allowed to say prostitution is wrong. My partner and I both unequivocally think prostitution is wrong.

I don't however see why the fact I am a woman means my opinion counts for more than his or should be given greater credence. I don't hold this opinion because I'm a woman.

BertrandRussell · 02/08/2015 13:59

The bit immediately after saying "what they can be like". And the next bit saying "lots of men are not very nice when it comes to sex"

"We know what men are like and because we know what men [ie as a whole] are like we therefore know what they [ie some of them] can be like"

Does that clear it up? Or are you going to carry on picking on one semantic point rather than discuss the substantive point?

WhirlpoolGalaxyM51 · 02/08/2015 14:09

Good grief.

I say we know what lots of men can be like because at least one person has said that the story where the man was horrible might not be true, or might have different interpretations.

I say, well why not think it's true, when we know lots of men can be horrible when it comes to sex, why not think, well this man was horrible, rather than give him the benefit of the doubt.

LHReturns · 02/08/2015 14:11

This thread was interesting until the last page....which is going to kill it with the boring obsession with semantics.