'The only way we've sorted a sleep prob in this house is controlled crying' - fuck off!!

[Smataya]

I text friend who has two under two how hard it's been of late with Ds 11 months just not sleeping. I've explained before he is just not a sleeper and likes to be close at night, wakes a lot for milk and that I'm doing attachment parenting. She knows how against cc I am and I will not ever leave my child to cry. Ds has not slept for longer than an hour since he was 5 months which is starting to take its toll, but as I say, he's just not a sleeper and it's tough.

Why the f is she doing this pa bull shit about cc over text?? She's been like eerr have you tried sleep training to me before and I just don't want to hear it. Her two sleep through and I just find it smug- she's got lucky and now claiming its all down to cc. Am I justified in texting back to say ftfo to the far side of fuck?!?!

Trying to offer some helpful advicet I the sleep deprived OP, have you read the 'no cry sleep solution' book? Recommend you try it if now. Also mine only slept for 45 minutes at a time for ages, I read about resettling where you give them a gentle nudge just before they wake up (so 40 mins in our case) and they half wake then drift into another cycle. Worked wonders!

Look, you are so exhausted you are on your knees.
Youd have to be supehuman to not be emotional and irritable. They are clasdic symptoms of sleep deprivation.
is there anyone who can look after the baby on a regular basis so you can nap for a while ?

I understand. There have been times i have been so tired i have felt physically nausiated and verging on delusional.

Ok so I x posted with your update now I feel bad.

So I'll offer some advice that isn't cc. This weekend can your DP take DC out for an afternoon so you can have a long uninterrupted nap. DC will be with a parent, being cared for, you can catch up on some sleep and hopefully feel better?

You sound very ignorant OP so it's not really a surprise that you are not getting much support here.

Are there still people who believe that cc means leaving babies to scream for hours?

I think people confuse CC with CIO.

Do you feed baby when he wakes ? I was the same when DS was that age and I found that if instead of breastfeeding at night I would cuddle him so he didn't feel alone but eventually he woke up much less as he wasn't getting a feed so he stopped bothering.

I think, on the whole, people arn't against you choice of AP, but how you seemed to come about attacking your friend when she just seemed to be offering her experience. But you're tired and well all over react when we're sleeping deprived not slept well due to pregnancy and called everyone yelling for eating all the butter and I wanted crumpets

Slightly off-topic, but YANBU to object to her saying "in this house" in that way - I hate this. Like people's homes are some kind of separate nation state, ruled by them. "No pudding unless you eat your dinner in this house" etc etc.

Just say "I used controlled crying", "I deny my children pudding unless they eat their main". Not "in this house". Because if I come into your house, I may make choices that are different from yours!

Sorry, just can't stand it, it's so despotic. Good luck OP - hope you find a solution that works for you, or that the problem just gets better on it's own, as in my experience it probably will in time.

I didn't 'do' any type of parenting.. I co-slept with my eldest for ages (we did slep) and the moved her out at 2.5 after much heart wrenching and guilt. I learned from this experience and from about 11 months encouraged my other two to self settle by not immediately offering milk when they woke. It took to about 2.5 years for them all to sleep through BUT they did sleep for long chunks unbroken and I always got back to sleep easily. I wasn't working and it worked for me.
I do think there comes a point though, that if you are losing your mind through sleep deprivation - you need to take control and xc might be the answer. Despite having done a lot of the ap methods myself, I've seen people do ap to a point of extremism that makes cc look like a far more sensible option. There is no RIGHT way - good enough parenting will do

Ap is the most natural form of parenting there is, and I completely agree that cc is like that advert

So what you're saying is that the smugness doesn't just go one way (if your friend actually was smug - she sounded practical to me).

Are you co sleeping ? Do you put the baby down for a nap on its own at all i ask because sometimes babies need some space they dont need to be near their mother all the time

We co sleep for all sleeps

How many sleeps do you have during the day?

I was trying to make a point about how far apart views are. The point is like many parenting issues people feel passionately about the choices they make. I do let my boys cry, it's really impossible not to with twins but I don't and won't ever leave them without comfort if they are serious distressed. I don't normally share my views and I don't judge other people's parenting but to me it feels cruel. I'm entitled to my opinion on a subject I have researched and thought a lot about. There genuinely is growing evidence that cc has psychological impacts long term. My point is if you believe that then you wouldn't use cc and of course if you don't believe it then it's crazy not to. Fwiw my boys are not sleep deprived or unhappy. They are under paediatric care for unrelated (heart) issues and I get very positive feedback about their development and happiness.

Look. Just find a happy medium. It's common sense, surely.

Honestly, nothing like an AP fanatic devotee to espouse the drama... What is it with that?

Some babies to grizzle and moan when they are trying to get to sleep its like us tossing and turning trying to get comfy in bed have you tried maybe putting your baby down for a nap and just letting them moan a bit but not lying down or cuddiling them

OP, can I suggest that you contact MN HQ and get this thread pulled? It's turning into a right old bunfight and I doubt in your sleep deprived state it's doing you any good.

Ugh sleep deprivation is crap. I remember when ds was tiny rocking him in the pram at 45min intervals all through the night until he would have a 2hr sleep at 4am. The things we do!

If only babies came with an off switch or an ability to tell the time. My other ds was a great sleeper as a newborn. Now he is actually one of those who doesn't need much sleep, probably always will be. Good on him leave me out of it though

Totally random post sorry just empathy as recall the worst of it!

OP Aibu
MN yes
OP oh no I'm not......

I haven't rtwt but there are options between AP and cc. With my first I did the no cry sleep solution at 18 months (when I was desperate as he was waking 4-5 times pn), which worked within a month.

Dc2 was more stubborn and ncss didn't work for her, at 10 months, so i followed the sleep lady technique (gradual withdrawal) and that worked within 3 weeks I think.

Both dc learned to self settle with minimum upset and knew they weren't 'abandoned' (emotive word I know, but how I felt) which was important to me.

There are gentle, AP-compatible sleep methods that aren't CC (some listed here for example). Worth a look? You must be exhausted.

YWB a bit U to tell her to fuck off, really, but YANBU to get annoyed if you've already told her you don't want to do CC and she keeps banging on about it. Co-sleeping worked brilliantly for us, but I can accept that it wouldn't work for all families or all babies and wouldn't keep on and on suggesting it to someone who said it wasn't for them.

Also, YANBU to want to grumble occasionally about being tired to a friend without having to turn it into a long defensive discussion about why CC wouldn't work for you for whatever reason. The closest I have ever come to violence when my DD was going through a more-awful-than-usual sleep phases was having to deal with people lecturing me about how she'd be sleeping through by tomorrow if I only did XYZ. Yes, we have a good bedtime routine, thanks. No, putting her down "drowsy but awake" does not work. No, I don't "go running in every time she makes a peep". No, she wouldn't "just grumble for a few minutes" if I left her once she started crying, she would end up full-on screaming and vomiting all over herself within a very short time. Yes, I am sure. Yes, I have seen it. Yes, really. No, I know your baby didn't do that, but we have different babies. Look, could you just accept that I'm shattered and offer me a bloody coffee please?

I'm alright thanks loose- at the end of the day I chose to post, yes I feel like shit but who wouldn't. We do about two one hour naps a day, I guess. Interested by the research mentioned about cc being damaging - any links?

Exactly 53!!!

Why would you want links though? You are against it and that's fine. Leave it there.