'The only way we've sorted a sleep prob in this house is controlled crying' - fuck off!!

[Smataya]

I text friend who has two under two how hard it's been of late with Ds 11 months just not sleeping. I've explained before he is just not a sleeper and likes to be close at night, wakes a lot for milk and that I'm doing attachment parenting. She knows how against cc I am and I will not ever leave my child to cry. Ds has not slept for longer than an hour since he was 5 months which is starting to take its toll, but as I say, he's just not a sleeper and it's tough.

Why the f is she doing this pa bull shit about cc over text?? She's been like eerr have you tried sleep training to me before and I just don't want to hear it. Her two sleep through and I just find it smug- she's got lucky and now claiming its all down to cc. Am I justified in texting back to say ftfo to the far side of fuck?!?!

But Aeroflotgirl, not all babies would be comforted with that. Once mine had got to the stage of full-on screaming - which she did very, very quickly - the only thing that comforted her was picking her up for a while. Otherwise she'd just get more and more worked up, even with someone right next to her trying to soothe her. If I'd done CC with her it would have meant hours of crying, because popping back in after 2/4/8/10 minutes to shush her without picking her up would have done nothing at all.

I think people who truly can't understand why anyone wouldn't do CC unless they're a weird martyr type possibly don't have babies who do this? Because I value my sleep too, I went back to work when mine was five months, I don't go rushing in at every little whimper, etc etc, but I am not going to leave a baby to scream at the top of her voice until she's covered in vomit, and that's what CC would have looked like in our house.

In that case 53rd, CC was not right for your dd, with dd it did work. Or you wait until your child is a bit older and understands more.

No 53 that is not what you do, if your child is doing that despite CC then it's not the right method for yiu, like AP is not for everybody either.

I know it's not the method for everyone, Aeroflot. That's what I'm saying - it's not fair to criticise anyone who doesn't do CC as a pointlessly sleep-deprived martyr (let alone as abusive, as some people further upthread did).

I understand that, I haven't said that at all, others have.

Oh no, I know, and I agree with you that different things work for different families.

I do think maybe some of the people who think CC means letting your baby scream for hours don't necessarily fail to understand the method, though - maybe they just have DC like mine where it would mean screaming for hours? or maybe have DC like that and don't realise that others are different. There are enough sleep training resources out there which are totally fine with leaving them to cry until they vomit, alas.

You clearly know best about how to bring up your child; (the fact your theories are not working in no way deters you), so why be so harsh on your friend?

Settled babies and children are usually the product of sensible, calm parenting, not luck; not nearly enough credit is given to parents who achieve this.

I think permitting a 5 year old(SEN aside) to get very little sleep and blindly following a parenting style that permits this is frankly cruel.

Time after time studies show kids with poor sleep have health and educational issues.Teachers see the fall out in school,it has a long term impact on education and health.

Maybe the NCPCC et al need to start dealing with such parents instead of lecturing those that ensure their DC get a good nights sleep.

I wouldn't wish any baby or parent to go through the stress we went through pre cc. Lack of sleep cause untold stress to go with the impact on health and education.

I know 53rd you try different things, whatever works be it AP or CC or others, than you have tgat. No of course you don't leave your baby to scream and scream, I have done on occasion, not because I was using a method, I was exhausted, drained, PND, tried everything, I just sat there and cried with my baby (which was dd). Knowing know she is Autistic, she was Autistic As a baby.

I see what you mean goblin but I think luck plays a part too. By 2 weeks old dd was sleeping solidly at night, waking for feeds but straight back asleep. If you take the luck factor out, the only way to interpret it is to say that was down to my superior parenting, which I don't believe was the case for a minute. Plus people who have several nt children, same parenting for all and yet some naturally sleep better than others.

And I'd never judge a parent for doing something they believe is best for their child, whatever I think of the method. But when your role is as a nanny, not a parent, you aren't having to put natural emotions to one side, so you don't have the same rights to say the decision to cc is in the childs best interests because the decision has less emotion than for a parent.

Exactly.

I think the parent responding to their emotions is not always to what the child needs.
Sometimes as a parent you have to do what the child needs not what the child wants

I got fed up with people saying my DC were great sleepers and well behaved and I was "lucky" when it was mostly do with consistent parenting and firm boundaries.

That's what I'm saying, if the parent can put aside the emotion then clearly they are doing it for good reason, take the emotion out of it and it's easy to do it for the wrong reasons

What worries me is when parents put aside their own instincts on what their child needs and do some method even though it's not working for their child, because "everyone says" or their favourite books says that that's what they need.

By all means follow CC if your instinct says your child will settle if you leave them a bit longer. But if your instinct says you're just upsetting them and making them insecure, perhaps it's not what that particular child needs, and perhaps giving them a cuddle is the best way to satisfy that particular child's need for sleep.

instinct and emotions are different though.
Hopefully you instinctively know what your child needs and is not rocket science that if it isnt working try something else.
if your DC needs to cosleep - fine but the OP states she is cosleeping but not actually getting any sleep !

Emotions and particularly the parents emotions are often based on past experiences they had.
Acting on your emotions in this situation isn't helpful.
Parents who cant bear for their child to cry, be unhappy and jumping through hoops to avoid tantrums.
This isn't helpful for the child, they never get to experience vital emotions,even negative ones and learn how to deal with them.

Ha, I defy any parent to jump through hoops to the extent their child never gets upset. Unless you're very skilled at glueing the banana back together, causing friends to visit again at 6am, making wasps not exist, creating strawberries out of thin air, and hanging on to your 2 yr old at all times so they never fall over without actually touching them because they don't want to be touched.

There are plenty of ways to better sleep that don't involve leaving them to cry alone. I hope OP has been able to pick that up in the thread in between the more extreme views and is making progress towards a better night's sleep for all.

I actually know someone who is like that cat
Everything is based around their child not ever getting upset ,they are so OTT in the pandering its ridiculous!

Needless to say the child has tantrums constantly!

I don't consider hugging and cradling a child as "pandering".

It would be a very sad day when a loving caress is considered to be a bad thing.

I think we all know parents who never say no. And what are the kids like? Badly behaved brats in the main....

So all parents who don't do CC never say no to their children?

There's a cognitive leap.

Who said that?

I think we all know parents who never say no. And what are the kids like? Badly behaved brats in the main....

So what's this all about on a CC thread?

Blimey this thread is still going!

Who knew AP vs CC is such a contentious subject?

I think I have already commented on this thread but fwiw I think sometimes AP methods lose sight of the fact that for some babies they will sleep better on their own and in their own room.

My own dd (who is 9yo now) has recently been diagnosed with sensory processing difficulties which in part explains why she needs to be in a quiet dark space with no interaction at night. Any attempt by me to co-sleep or comfort would have caused her more distress. Likewise she needed a routine in order to cope with day to day life, still does to a certain extent!

The op is frustrating for me because for whatever reason co-sleeping/AP is clearly not working for her or her baby yet she is unable to see past an ideology. Sleep is an important skill that babies/children/adults need to learn in order to function and develop, to persevere at something that is causing a baby to wake constantly is imo madness.

AP methods lose sight of the fact that for some babies they will sleep better on their own and in their own room.

No they don't AP methods are sensitive to a child's needs.

Sleep is an important skill that babies/children/adults need to learn in order to function and develop, to persevere at something that is causing a baby to wake constantly is imo madness.

No one disputes that sleep is important.
It is the methods used to achieve that goal that is being discussed.

four I was discussing the emotions of the parent - nowhere did I say that if you don't do CC you never say no.
You made the cognitive leap not me.

It was discussing why parents sometimes do things that are not in the childs best interests that the discussion of strong emotions overriding the childs needs came about.
The OP is not sleeping at all,her child is not sleeping at all.
There is something very wrong here and the suggestion that she may be responding to her emotions and not the childs needs is a possible factor.
Im not relating it to everyone who tries a different method, particularly if that method works !