'The only way we've sorted a sleep prob in this house is controlled crying' - fuck off!!

[Smataya]

I text friend who has two under two how hard it's been of late with Ds 11 months just not sleeping. I've explained before he is just not a sleeper and likes to be close at night, wakes a lot for milk and that I'm doing attachment parenting. She knows how against cc I am and I will not ever leave my child to cry. Ds has not slept for longer than an hour since he was 5 months which is starting to take its toll, but as I say, he's just not a sleeper and it's tough.

Why the f is she doing this pa bull shit about cc over text?? She's been like eerr have you tried sleep training to me before and I just don't want to hear it. Her two sleep through and I just find it smug- she's got lucky and now claiming its all down to cc. Am I justified in texting back to say ftfo to the far side of fuck?!?!

Four so if co-sleeping is not working then would you happily try putting the baby in a cot in their own room (I am talking 6mo plus here?) If the baby needs his/her own quiet space to rest properly?

"any normal, loving and nurturing parent willing to overcome their natural instinct to immediately comfort their child, must believe it's in the childs interests and therefore worth it"

I'm with swallowed - no natural "gotta immediately stop this crying" instinct here, either.

CC wasn't only in DD's best interest. It was in her best interest, DH's, and mine. It is sometimes easy to lose sight of the fact that the baby isn't the only person whose wellbeing needs to be protected.

Two nights of CC and she was sleeping through all night, not waking up until 7 AM. Happy, well-rested baby and parents. We were all happier and lived better from that moment on, especially DD who benefited most from 12 hours of her unbroken sleep.

girliefriend- of course I would. But I would not leave a baby to cry there.

Hmm I found my dd needed a few mins of grizzling before she went off to sleep, the more I tried to intervene the more het up she would get. However like I said my dd has since been diagnosed with sensory issues so over stimulation was a big problem.

There is a big difference between a few mins of grizzly/tired crying and full blown screaming imo. I would also not leave a baby screaming but there is a difference in cries and reasons why babies cry.

Completely agree with Cote I need sleep as does my dd, I would have been doing myself and her a massive disservice if I had attempted to co-sleeping and not given her the opportunity to self settle.

I'd much rather let DD whinge for 15 minutes before sleeping through the night than have her miserable and feeling grotty all day because she's been up all night.

Yeah, what DS would do if left was not grizzling or whinging it was full on screaming, getting louder, it took ages to calm him even if I went in and picked him up. So wish I'd known about cosleeping sooner. DD has been coslept by default as that was what worked for DS, it also worked for her so never really tried cot in own room. Also we didn't actually have a spare room for her so it's lucky she didn't need it. Tho suppose DS wouldn't have minded cosleeping again and giving her his!

I'd much rather let DD whinge for 15 minutes before sleeping through the night than have her miserable and feeling grotty all day because she's been up all night

It's very shortsighted of you to consider there are only these two options.

I think baby will be fine and sleep eventually, prob once running around and wearing himself out.

At the moment he doesn't know there is night and day, as both are the same with lots of cuddles and feeds. Try taking him out into daylight a lot during the day. Keeping things dark at night.

But imagine OP how you would be with a second DC - would DC1 come first all the time and DC2 be left to cry?

And did you expect DFriend to say - stick at it, I've made my DCs neurotic anxiety ridden wrecks?

If you have twins you can't swoop in immediately and scoop up baby at the slightest whimper. Most days they have to cry for a while before every feed let alone when they wake up.And as for subsequent babies.My singleton was left in a Moses basket within a playpen( for her own safety). Toddler wrangling 2 x15 month olds and climbing over the detritus they make ensured she certainly didn't get picked up immediately and no I had no urges to pick her up above all else whilst ignoring my toddlers and their needs/ safety.

< looks at my dd, dtwins and the dtwin nephews> yep all look fine. No obvious left over trauma scars or bonding issues.

Lol lily - you've reminded me of the time I hosted a coffee morning for new mums when I had ds3. Three mums turned up with their pfbs. One explained that they weren't allowing their dc to cry at all. As soon as he/she made a sound they were picked up & comforted & they were trying to make sure she never cried. I listened politely.

I went out to make coffee - with the kettle going & the door to the front room shut I couldn't hear what was going on in there & arrived back to find ds3 absolutely SCREAMING the place down. Proper purple face & big sobs. And all 3 just standing staring at him. No-one had picked him up, no-one was even next to him trying to soothe him (from memory he was in a bouncy chair so could have been given a bounce and some soothing words if they were worried about picking him up.

They couldn't talk he was so loud - so obviously it only mattered to the woman if her own baby cried

It was your responsibility- not theirs.

saintlyjimjams - if these women knew you didn't care if your baby was crying then why would they pick him uo?

It's never too early in the morning to be deliberately obtuse and provocative apparently four!

Who said they don't care if their baby cries? I haven't read that in this thread, but maybe you're looking somewhere different to me?

I think anyone who does AP with their pfb has to expect that by baby number 2 a few of their friends and family are going to be laughing behind their hands (or in the case of my SIL, she was quite happily laughing at herself). Suddenly the baby who could never be out down is playing second fiddle to the new baby and something somewhere has to give! It is impossible to pick two or more kids up the second they cry, absolutely impossible. So a parenting technique which only works if you have one child strikes me as no kind of parenting technique at all.

Such an unimaginative view of AP.

Of course it is possible with more than one child. The needs of a toddler and a baby are different.

four you're saying that parents who don't practice AP don't care if their children cry, and you're calling ME unimaginative? Hahaha :)

I am not saying all parent. Just some of them.

Just don't talk about sleep! I wouldn't do cc but lots of parents do and I think they're wrong but not to a point that I would actually tell them this. They won't change their minds and they are doing it because they think it's best. Ds has never needed much sleep and it took a long time to get him in a good, swift bedtime routine but we are there now. No one needed to know about the difficulties along the way. Who cares, he was a delight when awake, ate really well etc. there's always something to worry about!
Equally I wouldn't ask a ff friend for bf advice!

which ones four? Name three.

Hmmmm re the needs of a toddler and baby being different.

Lost count of the number of AP fans ignoring the needs of their toddlers in order to have a 24 hour love in with baby number 2.

Imvho toddlers need you more and being shoved to one side and having their needs ignored in order to bow to every immediate need of a new born can have quite a big impact. Ime the terrible 2s are often down to toddlers being punted to one side.

Fact:- babies are tough and designed to withstand 10 mins of grissling or even shock horror crying. As long as they get loads of cuddles,sleep,food,fresh air and plenty of nappy changes in the course of a whole day they are absolutely fine.

A toddler needn't be ignored to attend to a newborn.
Babies tend to sleep a lot, and can easily be fed hands free.
Giving a toddler more focussed attention when a new baby comes along is part of AP parenting.

Todddler's needs often don't fit in round a newborn. Mine often slept the same time as my newborn. The joys of a strict routine. Used to love my 2 and a half hour lunch break which ensured they all went down at 7 hassle free. Good old Gina.

Once awake they all had to share me which did them a lot of a good.

Good lord is this still going? I assumed it was a reverse....

four - re "if these women knew you didn't care if your baby was crying then why would they pick him up?"

What a nasty, and completely unfounded accusation to make

I'm no AP but would pick up my host's crying baby and try to soothe him when she is in the kitchen, or at least would take him to the kitchen to see his mum. It is only normal. As jimjam said, it is very odd that these 'friends' just let her baby scream himself blue while they were chitchatting and his mum was obviously not hearing him.

It's not nasty. If saintlyjimjams had make her feelings known during the discussion the woman may have assumed that she was OK with her baby crying unattended.
I know plenty women who don't mind a baby's cries.
My next door neighbour feeds her baby then stuffs it into a pram in the garden.
She will sit drinking coffee reading a magazine while her baby screams blue murder. If he gets too noisy she wheels the pram to the farthest part of the garden.
My neighbour would not appreciate any intervention.

Those are not her "feelings". She has already said "I don't like CC".

Your post is nothing but your gleeful assumption that only Attachment Parents care about their children's crying and distress. Anyone who dares suggest that other approaches can be useful, even if they don't do CC, must be uncaring, cold mothers who would be totally fine with their babies turning blue in the face screaming