'The only way we've sorted a sleep prob in this house is controlled crying' - fuck off!!

[Smataya]

I text friend who has two under two how hard it's been of late with Ds 11 months just not sleeping. I've explained before he is just not a sleeper and likes to be close at night, wakes a lot for milk and that I'm doing attachment parenting. She knows how against cc I am and I will not ever leave my child to cry. Ds has not slept for longer than an hour since he was 5 months which is starting to take its toll, but as I say, he's just not a sleeper and it's tough.

Why the f is she doing this pa bull shit about cc over text?? She's been like eerr have you tried sleep training to me before and I just don't want to hear it. Her two sleep through and I just find it smug- she's got lucky and now claiming its all down to cc. Am I justified in texting back to say ftfo to the far side of fuck?!?!

Ok well I disagree but until you have been or employed a nanny you won't inderstand.

I'm not saying I want to take the place of a mother so please wind your neck in ;)

I'm just saying as a nanny I am alone with my boss's most prized possession all day and so yes I care for her and love her and play with her as I know her mother would. I'm not her mother she knows who her mummy is, but at th same time she knows she will get love and care from me to and that is important.

Also if you what to coddle your child that's your choice. Good luck ;)

I find it very sad that some children don't and their parents think its ok to absolve themselves of the responsibility of teaching their children good sleep hygiene.

How passive aggressive. Spare us your faux pity.

Well said,

purple- I have worked as a nanny- so that's how I know. I am also a mother, and know the chasm of difference.

You won't know that of course having only a one sided view.

and love her ......as her mother would.

No that's quite freaky. You can never love your charges as their mother would.

Why is is freaky? Ok this is getting silly! Your escalating this and twisting my words and trying to make me to look Like a creeper and I do not appreciate that!

I'm not a mother, I'm happy to say goodbye at 6:30 I'm thrilled at how excited my charge gets when she sees her mum is wonderful. But I do care for her very deeply as I've been with her every day since she was born, however I could happily leave tomorrow and never see her again being again she's not mine and I'm not a creeper!

I doubt you were a nanny as every nanny knows the importance of being a caring and loving nanny.

Well said four

There's always hyperbole on both sides of this argument. People seem to have the idea that cortisol is a bad hormone- it's not, it's essential for life and has natural peaks and troughs over a 24hour period. I don't think a few hours of crying over a few days will make a major difference to a child based on cortisol alone- cortisol is sky high when a human is ill, or when exercising and first thing in the morning. This is normal and necessary and certainly doesn't harm anyone.

On the other hand there is nothing wrong with not wanting to go down the CC route. I haven't with my 15 month old, who I still feed most nights. I know she doesn't need to feed but it comforts her and that's ok. If she was up hourly of course I might feel differently, but given my own poor tolerance of her crying I think I would always go for gentler methods. And I don't think sleep training is reasonable at 6 weeks. Tiny babies need frequent contact and have no concept of anything other than their own needs.

Its not faux pity - I really do feel sorry for children whos parents don't understand what responsible parenting is.
A child not sleeping through at 3 or 4 is ridiculous and not good for the child or the parent.

But why automatically assume people not in favour of cc have children that don't sleep? It's not the only method.

It's not the biological norm to sleep for 12 hours straight. If it was, we wouldn't have to teach it. As long as a child is healthy, able to focus at nursery/school, is growing well and has energy to exercise then does it matter if (s)he crawls into bed with parents in the small hours? If the family are happy it's nobody's business but theirs. I certainly remember waking up in my parents bed as a small child. We all survived!

Exactly lurked- it shows a distinct lack of imagination.

nicestrong are you suggesting that parents who don't use CC are "irresponsible"? You word, not mine.

purplepumkins- I dismiss your view.

With no experience as a parent you can't really understand this debate.

Im not assuming that at all ,just replying to the thread and the OP who would rather get up every hour that try CC.

Wow fourth that's actually really rude and tells me how ignorant you are that you think only your view is important. But fair enough I guess I am a bit more worldly wize then you and can accept all sorts of views and opinions ;)

oh also I'm a sleep trainer people pay me to sleep train their babies but ok that's fine finish my view ;)

*dismiss

6 weeks old is way to young for CC

purplepumpkin- but you are not a mother and your relationship with your charges is not that of a mother/ child.

Sleep methods entail a great deal of emotional involvement which is why these debates become so heated.

, however I could happily leave tomorrow and never see her again

And this comment simply demonstrates that you don't have that emotional understanding.

Sleep trainer or not you can't see this from a mother's perspective.

I guess your approach depends on how bad you think crying is.

I can handle a bit of crying and don't feel the need to rush in and soothe. Of course I soothe my child if he's really upset but I don't drop everything and rush to him the minute I hear him start.

For me, a bit of crying isn't the end of the world.

When DS was little I had a lot going on and I valued my sleep. If he cried and really meant it I went in. If he cried and it was just a whinge or complain then I didn't.

Some nights he screamed, but for little reason. On those nights I slept with a pillow over my head so I couldn't hear him....

I get so angry when people have the attitude that those who choose not to sleep train, are not "entitled" to complain. It's so wrong. Also, why should those who do sleep train be "entitled" to complain? Surely their complaints prove that their cc/cio methods have failed, or alternatively, why does it bother them - can't they just leave the kids to cry anyway? It's so so confusing. OP, you ought to not take so much offence from your friend, but I completely get where you're coming from. It's not worth losing a friend over though x

Genuine question to those of you who would never 'resort' to cc: At what age does that apply to? I know we're mostly talking about babies/toddlers here but say you had a 4 year old who would only sleep after being rocked/fed/sang to for 2 hours in order to go to sleep and cried the second you left the room so you had to rush back and do it for another hour? Or a 6 year old? Or 7 year old? Or a 9 year old? Would there ever come a point when you would say 'enough is enough' and say that this child learns to go to sleep on their own? I am coming from the perspective of someone who was nearly sectioned for psychotic depression 3 months after my 2nd DC was born and I'd been surviving on 2 hours sleep a night.

Purplepumpkins Do you know that all human babies are born premature? Even those born 2 weeks "late"? At 6 weeks they shoupd still be in utero, being fed on demand and cuddled and sleeping whenever they need to, not in a cot being ignored by hired help so that they will learn that someone else's wants override their evolved biological needs. You're an absolute disgrace.

"hired help" Disappointed? How fucking rude.

You know you lose the argument when you resort to rudeness, right?

AndyWarhol I have a 4 year old that has always struggled to switch her brain off and sleep. I have not, and would not ever resort to ignoring her to "train" her.

What is a nanny if not hired help?