'The only way we've sorted a sleep prob in this house is controlled crying' - fuck off!!

[Smataya]

I text friend who has two under two how hard it's been of late with Ds 11 months just not sleeping. I've explained before he is just not a sleeper and likes to be close at night, wakes a lot for milk and that I'm doing attachment parenting. She knows how against cc I am and I will not ever leave my child to cry. Ds has not slept for longer than an hour since he was 5 months which is starting to take its toll, but as I say, he's just not a sleeper and it's tough.

Why the f is she doing this pa bull shit about cc over text?? She's been like eerr have you tried sleep training to me before and I just don't want to hear it. Her two sleep through and I just find it smug- she's got lucky and now claiming its all down to cc. Am I justified in texting back to say ftfo to the far side of fuck?!?!

Hi everyone - we've had a lot of reports about this thread.

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Bloody Hell Betty it must be exhausting for her has she tried CC I think it would be a lot easier when they're 14.

Are you in Africa, Lennon?

Only you do enjoy posting a lot of stuff that isn't actually relevant...

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On the off chance that anyone is paying any attention to the copy and paste jobs from a couple of threads ago, some of Darcia Narvaez's is as much supposition as science. She makes shit up.

YABU
Sleep deprivation is a form of torture. Both you and baby need sleep to function properly and this could have a bigger impact on your child's development than needing to be close to you. Your baby is growing up no longer a newborn. He should not news feeds every hour, this is creating a really bad habit that you are going to have to break at some point for the sake of his health and yours.
Do you imagine that he is just going to decide for himself one day to sleep through and not feed hourly? It will take some input from you as a parent to get to this point. Whether that is done through controlled crying or not is your choice.

Controlled crying is definitely not necessary and is not something we have ever done. DD2 just started sleeping through (8pm ish to 6am ish) this week, at 18 months. Until 15 months she didn't go more than about 3-4 hours, and that was on a good night.

I think your mistake was complaining about it in a way which suggested you wanted advice, which she then offered and you can't really blame her for... I can't say I never moaned but I would tend to say something like "I can't wait until she sleeps through, but I'm just trying to enjoy the sleepy cuddles", making it clear I had made my choice. Everyone needs a vent every once in a while but be aware that you are choosingto "do attachment parenting" and your choice will seem as alien to her as CC is to you.

The No Cry Sleep Solution is fab for ideas, didn't work for us but liked the supportive, you-are-not-alone tone

Shebird, with due respect your post is full of misconception presented as fact.

Do you imagine that he is just going to decide for himself one day to sleep through and not feed hourly?

Uh, yes. That's what people do when they transition from baby or toddler into small child. You don't have to train them to do it.

Lennon80, please see the guidelines below on how to link the nonsensical essays you have been posting.

Op you must be knackered so no wonder you aren't maybe reacting as rationally as some other posters. My DS was a terrible sleeper - he woke up every two hours until he was 14 months. I won't tell you how we fixed it because it was cc and that doesn't seem to be on the table but I will say that once you have some sleep in the bank you'll feel a bit better. Is there a DP on the scene who can help you out a bit at night so you can rest?

You're 'doing' the AP method? It's not like choosing to do baby led weaning or trad weaning. It's instinctive to parent in an AP way and someone has given it a label, you don't choose to do it. It's instinctive.

HoldYerWhist - Yes because AIDS doesn't exist in England does it?

As it happens we have lived in South Africa, Nigeria and Rwanda and could potentially go back to Africa due to my husband's work.

I can't help much I've AP four kids and sleep is never something we got to grips with. Coffee and the fact that they grow up are the only things that saved my sanity. Now I can't get my flippin 12 year old to wake up before 10am on the weekends. Swings and roudabouts as they say. I have a friend that had a terrible sleeper and a smug sister in law with a cc's sleep trained dream. She wanted to punch her SIL in the face in those early days. She once said when her son's a teenager she plans to get her own back. Doubt she will though, she'll be too busy sleeping :)

Why doesn't she just sleep in your bed?... My 2yr did does otherwise she wouldn't sleep through.

i couldn't bring myself to do CC either, despite it being recommended to me a lot. we did 'pick up, put down'. you never leave your child to cry, they don't learn to view their cot as punishment or a bad place to be, and they learn to go to sleep by themselves. seeing as your LO likes you to be near, this might work as you never leave them if they're upset, only when they're happy. if they do get upset, you go back in. it takes a long time for them to nod off the first few times (an hour for my first kid, then instantly for my second!) but it is worth it. and hopefully you wouldn't feel that you had betrayed any of the AP principles because separation comes at the kid's speed, not yours.

a friend of mine had no luck with CC and tried PUPD and it worked for her. but every kid is different and lot of what we think are the result of our choices are just plain old chance or your kid's nature.

good luck - getting ur kid to sleep can be a nightmare, x

fury Ap is instinctive?Give us a break. Parenting is instinctive, HOW you parent is governed by societal rules and expectations.
AP is a misnomer. All parenting, that is not actively abusive, is AP.
Choosing for you and your child( who has no choice of course. The child relies on you as the caregiver to ensure he has enough sleep for instance) to be emotionally shredded through lack of sleep is NOT AP, it is madness.

BTW I've got 6 dc and I've never had to do CC either, neither have I deprived myself or my dc of sleep when there were alternatives.

Lennon80 You are woefully misunderstanding the work of Bowlby and Ainsworth if you think their findings can be applied in this way. Nevertheless, I do love "attachment parents" thinking their parenting is based on attachment theory. In my day, we just called it 'parenting'.

P.S. As someone who has seen more neglect and emotional abuse that one woman should see, I can safely say that you are not making evidence based statements.

Kayden - AP parenting is based on the concept of attachment theory whether you like it or not and yes essentially it is just 'parenting' responding to a baby's needs - arousal relaxation cycle, internal working models. .

Anyway this thread is tiresome. I tried to post links that were digestible for people however whatever you do on MN you will get criticised . I am unable to post the academic papers I have access to because they are not available without subscription so it breeches copyright.

www.psychology.sunysb.edu/attachment/online/inge_origins.pdf

The whole concept of secure attachment is based on meeting the child's needs and 'attunement' to the needs of that child.

that being so the OP should hopefully now be ATTUNED to the fact that her child desperately needs sleep in order to develop healthily, so ignored to meet her child's needs she will facilitate sleep for said child. A mother that tired cannot be properly attuned to her child therefore cannot do AP either.

Given that sleep is a pretty key need in that sense by the book "attachment parenting" is actually failing the needs of this particular child then I am sure you will agree? Which is why the OP is now sensibly considering other options which may help to resolve the issue.

buttons I was picking up on op saying she is 'doing' AP, like it's a choice. It's not a choice, it's instinctive. It's the most instinctive way of parenting to the point that it is parenting..... Baby 'expert' books teaching about sleep training, and consumerism have taken taken over our natural instincts