'The only way we've sorted a sleep prob in this house is controlled crying' - fuck off!!

[Smataya]

I text friend who has two under two how hard it's been of late with Ds 11 months just not sleeping. I've explained before he is just not a sleeper and likes to be close at night, wakes a lot for milk and that I'm doing attachment parenting. She knows how against cc I am and I will not ever leave my child to cry. Ds has not slept for longer than an hour since he was 5 months which is starting to take its toll, but as I say, he's just not a sleeper and it's tough.

Why the f is she doing this pa bull shit about cc over text?? She's been like eerr have you tried sleep training to me before and I just don't want to hear it. Her two sleep through and I just find it smug- she's got lucky and now claiming its all down to cc. Am I justified in texting back to say ftfo to the far side of fuck?!?!

Op it sounds like you need some support. How's your real life support system? Is your partner supportive? Was it his/her opinion on how you should parent/address sleep? Do youhave other supportive friends? Could you look at accessing other support like asking hv, getting a home start volunteer (def ap/np/gentle parenting accepting/supportive ime) or access your local sure start centre? Or could you look at going to a local ap friendly group- sling meets or bf groups tend to be ap friendly.

I loath labels, but most would term me ap I guess, and I think you seem slightly confused on how ap is in reality. Balance is one of the most important aspects, and it sounds like you're not getting much of that at the moment. My girls never slept either, and still don't actually, due to underlying disability's. I had cfs prior to kids so I know how tough sleep deprivation can be. It can be difficult to figure out the facts of sleep research and untangle them from your emotions connected to this.

Unlike breastfeeding or car seats or many other topics there are no set guidelines with regards to sleep training and no conclusive research on risks of sleep training. The nearest thing we have to this is Isis online (infant sleep information service I think- they had the initials prior to the terrorists) this website has all of the information about what is normal for infants sleep and effectively the largest meta analysis of all of the credible cc research. So don't worry yourself by this thread, go and read for yourself. The important thing with any research is to put it into context to help an informed decision. Scarring yourself either way won't help.

I would second recommendations of ncss- v ap friendly. And natural mamas forum, where you will find plenty of mums who have nursed hourly night awakenings in similar aged kids with no harm done to the child (as some have implied) as well as plenty who have addressed the balance and used ncss, Dr Jay Gordon, partial night weaning, or had the other parent take over night Soothings.

I would also consider if your DC has sr/cmpi and is dealing out comfort sucking to settle tum. Even without this though some kids are much higher needs than others, and many of us find ap is a way of addressing this. If this is the case then highly sensitive child, raising your spirited child, active altert child will be useful read for you. The wounder weeks will also be worth reading through.

I appreciate its tough when you turn to a friend for support and get unsolicited advice, but I think that's often what many people do without meaning to convey judgement. I am most defdefinitely the most ap of my mum friends, yet I feel I can ofload to them without unwanted advice or judgement- and a big part of that is it goes both ways- just because I wouldn't use cc (with my twins, as they are too hyper sensitive) doesn't mean I'd do anything other than support them if they decided that was best for their kids.

Best of luck, and I second asking the powers that be to take this thread down.

Mildly amused that Lennon80 manages to combine pontificating about cc equating to child abuse while staunchly defending her right to have her infant son circumcised.

OP - before shelling out money on a Sleep Clinic have a look at that no cry sleep solution book. For 2 reasons - firstly because there are great ideas in it, and secondly because it really helped me feel I wasn't totally alone.

I have heard fab stuff about it, mainly because they ask you where the line is drawn re cc/cio/co sleeping and then help you get where YOU want to be, whether that be baby in next county or in your bed.

OP, do you feed dc each time they wake? DS would literally sleep attached to me all night, many of his wakings were to find where my boob had gone. Reason I asked is we found it much easier for DH, both as there was no expectation of milk but also as was letting down all over the place.

It was recommended to us that we had to deal with separately so we did a few nights of deciding how often we would feed ds in the night and making the feed a big thing, but then lights off and back down to sleep. It meant that we could work on the location of sleep and duration a bit better once the milk expectation had changed. Both NCSS and Ferber were v similar in their approach of choosing a window of not feeding (think we did from 8 to 11, then again 2-6) and any wakings outside of the window could be sat up feeds not lying down aw we'd both drift off and the night would be buggered. If wakings were during windows we'd do whatever comforting that worked other than boob.

Gradually you extend the no feeding windows over time, and do any other comforting.

Mrs D '' I have spent years undoing the damage done by his bm and the LA.''

No no blame there at all.

Smataya there is no need to be hard on yourself because you are only doing what you think is best for your little one. Also you have been running on empty for about 6 months now so your cognitive reasoning might not be up to to par. I don't mean that as an insult I just me prolonged lack of sleep will have an affect on brain function.
Although you have clearly been doing what you think is best it's also clearly not working for anyone, so maybe this is the time for a new approach. With mine DD what worked for us was routine and lots of lavender (not sure why but always helped her to settle) with my DN lying in a room with the lights dimmed and rubbing her tummy until she fell asleep (10 mins max).
I can't really offer much more advice accept maybe mix it up a little until you find something that works for all of you.
Also don't listen to some of the offensive bollocks that has been posted on here.

Dr Jay Gordon, that's who we used. I'm on Natural Mamas too and is a great resource.

And Lennon, if you had read the thread you will have seen that I did CC and would happily recommend

If it was possible Lennon just became even less credible. Must be minus figures now.

Lennon your application of attachment theory is highly biased and not particularly well informed. Many of us on here understand attachment theory very well thank you, you're not an expert clearly

Lennon you are a massive hypocrite. You come on her and have the nerve to call those that CC abusive but you are willing to mutilate your own child's genitalia.
Shame on you!

I do get fed up with people claiming cc teaches children not to cry. I did cc at 10 months when it was clear my dd didn't need a feed at night. She'd wake, cry and push bottle away. It worked in 2 nights. She still cries if she needs me (or comes in our room now as she's 3.5. She calls us if she's scared or ill or has a bad dream but not because she stirs and needs us to settle her as she can settle herself. She is a very happy sleeper, but knows we will help when she calls. In fact, I respond really fast as I know it's for a reason, not just something she does every night.

Op, have you considered one of those cot beds that attach to your bed so that baby is still close to you with no barrier, then you can lie close to him with your hand gently on his chest to soothe him. Good luck
MrsD Lemmons posts reveal much about her.
I'd wager you know far more about baby/child development than he/she ever will.

I personally think helping a child to sleep through is the best gift you can give to them and you. If your child wakes every hour surely they cannot be well rested? You may have to try something new as an hour of sleep at a time sounds crazy to me. Your friend can only tell you what worked for her? What did you expect her to say. "No sleep sounds great keep doing what you are doing"

smataya

Not read the thread just yet but I wanted to suggest Cranial Osteopathy. It worked for a friend of mine whose child didn't sleep at all either

Ds1 was a little rat bag at sleeping at a year old we tried a mild version of cc which lasted 3 nights,

I'm going back to read the thread

My son was circumcised for health reasons - but the WHO/UNAIDS recommendations emphasize that male circumcision should be considered an efficacious intervention for HIV prevention .

Circumcision involves the surgical removal of the foreskin covering the tip of the penis. Germs can collect and multiply under the foreskin, creating issues of hygiene.

Clinical trials, many done in sub-Saharan Africa, have demonstrated that circumcision reduces HIV infection risk by 50 percent to 60 percent, the CDC guidelines note. The procedure also reduces by 30 percent the risk of contracting herpes and human papilloma virus (HPV), two pathogens believed to cause cancer of the penis.

The guidelines do point out that circumcision has only been proven to prevent HIV and sexually transmitted diseases in men during vaginal sex. The procedure has not been proven to reduce the risk of infection through oral or anal sex, or to reduce the risk of HIV transmission to female partners.

The scientific evidence is mixed regarding homosexual sex, the guidelines say, with some studies having shown that circumcision provides partial protection while other studies have not.

Circumcision does reduce the risk of urinary tract infections in infants, according to the CDC guidelines.

The most common risks associated with the procedure include bleeding and infection.

Male circumcision rates in the United States declined between 1979 and 2010, dropping from almost 65 percent to slightly more than 58 percent, according to a CDC report issued last year.

The new draft guidelines mirror an updated policy on circumcision released by the American Academy of Pediatrics in 2012.

This however is a totally different argument, but if that is how you want to try to 'get' me by going through old posts...lmfao .. some sad acts here there really are.

Dd and ds2 slept like little logs

And I can't get 16 year old ds1 out of bloody bed at the moment

DS2 didn't sleep through until we put him in his own room. I didn't want to leave him to sleep alone because he always woke in the night but actually, it was sharing a room with us that was waking him.

Sorry for typos

I did a gradual withdrawal method where I sat a tiny bit further away every night but provided (boring repetitive) reassurance whenever he called for me. He must have been at least nine months because he was in a toddler bed and that is when we had to move him out of his cot. We started him in bed with us but none of us (him most of all!) didn't sleep well that way and he did better in his own room from the get go.

He never really cried this way although there was a little bit of moaning which I was able to respond to immediately. I went very very slowly, it took me a month to get all the way out of the room a week to be far enough away to not hold his hand as he fell asleep. He slept a lot better this way because he learned to put himself back to sleep if he woke up in the night. He also learned to go to sleep a lot quicker and my back problems got a lot better.

DS#2 slept in bed with us, then as an older toddler slept in a cot at the end of the bed that he could get in and out of at will and get in bed with us. Then he moved into a double bed with his brother and then into a bunked at about two and a half.

MN bingo again - attachment parenting, controlled crying, BF, and now circumcision, What's the prize, or do I have to wait for a Daily Mail extract?

Smataya

Is this your first baby? I was obsessed with everything being perfect for ds, I read every book before he was born, unfortunately he hadn't!

My theories soon went out the window when I realized he had very different ideas of how things were going to work. You should be enjoying this time, getting to know him and what works, the only person that knows your baby is you

I put his cot next to me and when he woke he could see me and settle again, putting him in our bed seemed to make him more restless

I really struggled with breast feeding and was on my knees with but was determined I would do it, the health visitor eventually said to me, the most important thing for your ds is to have a happy, healthy and relaxed mum

Loosen up a wee bit and take a step back from all the theories, just work out what you and your baby actually need x

I know someone who has to sit with her 14 year old ds every night as a result of never leaving him to sleep alone since a babe. He's terrified of being in a room alone. She sure regrets it now! Her dd 3 has been sleeping by herself from 6 months. She didn't repeat it the next time.