to ask why, if it's generally accepted to be the behaviour of a twat, do parents exclude a couple of kids from class parties?

[Chippedrippedandstinking]

Inspired by Lappy's thread, we all agree it's wrong and yet it happens. With flame amnesty, will abuone admit to doing it, and if so, why?
And if it happened to you, did you call the parents on it?

I've only seen it once, the mother was taken aside and an invitation was issued.

Lovecat my posts on this thread were about including kids with SN. My only other point was that this thread is a good insight

Very unfair to accuse me of judging you.

Lovecat I was bullied in the same way as your daughter at school and one of the forms that bullying took was purposeful exclusion from parties.

Was also bullied.

Fanjo - I think it is a 'words on a page' issue, with people not being able to detect the tone of your words - and where you simply meant the thread was informative, nothing more, what you said could have had more read into it - maybe lovecat thought you were saying 'this thread has given me real insight into how judgemental and u caring some of you are'.

I saw both meanings when I read your post, but absolutely accept you meant the former not the latter.

Apologies if you'd already worked that out - I did not mean to sound patronising.

We have held whole class parties for various reasons, including to ensure that we can include ALL the children, even those with SEN who may not be invited to many parties. I hate the idea of children being excluded

I did it inadvertently, thankfully another mum mentioned it and it was rectified. Asked the teacher for a list of class names and she missed out one little girl. I explained and the mum was fine with it and thankfully it was pointed out to me before the party so we could still invite her!

I have been very shocked by the attitude on MN.
The message is loud and clear - 'it is wrong to bully a 'nice' child but it is quite OK to bully a 'nasty' child because they should know that they are 'horrible' children and 'horrible' children should know they deserve it!

Exclusion is bullying.

These are young children- with a myriad of reasons why they haven't got 'nice' social skills.

Of course you don't have to have them at your child's party - why would you? However the solution is so simple- you have a smaller party and invite the real friends.

Some people are so insistent they can't have a smaller party and they really don't care, unless their own child was excluded (but of course their child is a 'nice' child and it is only OK to bully a 'nasty' child)

I am pleased that there are posters on here who wouldn't exclude just one or two children. It does restore my faith in human nature.

We did have a joint birthday party where one child was excluded. School bully, anti social behaviour and universally detested by most children in his class. Given that professional school teachers struggle to control him, he has a nasty streak a mile wide and his mother causes a scene every time he is”unjustly accused” then I didn’t lose much sleep over it.

Saying that, despite his anti social behaviour I’ve always felt sorry for him. Multiple step fathers/half siblings and changes of address due to mothers chaotic love life means he didn’t stand much chance.

He’s been expelled from DS’s secondary school but mother did her normal trick of causing utter havoc until the school caved and let him back in(appeals, letters to MP, accusations against teachers etc). In the end he had to be allowed back in because it’s a Welsh language school and he is entitled to a welsh language education.

He has a thing about a friend of DS, he targets him, ds’s friend is no shrinking violet, stands up for himself and doesn’t require much encouragement to retaliate and therefore is constantly in bother when the bully boy is around.

Sorry i should have put a :)

If I had wanted to be critical I probably would have been more direct

But if a child is being bullied/hurt by another child, why should they be punished by not being allowed a big party, if that is what they want?

Is it right that someone who has been bullied or repeatedly hurt by another child is given the choice between a small party, even if they get on well with the rest of their class, or not, and inviting their bully?

I think maybe a lot of people don't realise they're being disablist. But as soon as a child is excluded or if kred or set aside and avoided because of their behaviour and its related to their condition, it really IS disablist.

But Methibel, don't you know any kids who are NT, nasty to other kids, quick to moan that such and such has picked on them though, whose parents are similar themselves (aggressive, no manners, their child can do no wrong)? I can think of at least one of those type of children at my kids's school. People started off with the attitude you have, inviting the child to everything, but then soon got fed up of them trying to hit and trip up other kids for no reason, complain about everything, whose parents stayed at the party and NEVER told their own kid off but was quick to tell off any child that their delightful offspring decided to accuse of a non-existent misdoing (or overreggerated it). A horrible family, as a whole. Why should that child continue to be invited and wreck children's birthday parties? They are learning that no-one will ever pick them up on their behaviour.

As far as I'm concerned, those sort of kids, whose parents are as badly behaved as their offspring, NEED to realise that there might be a good reason they are not invited to others' parties. Leave that type of "inclusion" to school. Out of school, the rest of the class should not have to be badly treated by one individual when they are trying to enjoy themselves.

I suspect most of the time when one child is missed out then it's pure and simple oversight. I nearly did it for my 7th birthday, if dm hadn't checked I would have done. But nothing about being nasty towards the girl involved, simply it worked out that year that I did something with all the other girls and not with her. I wasn't friendly with her, but no less friendly than a couple of the others iyswim.

I haven't ever done whole form parties, or even nearly whole form parties so it hasn't been an issue ever. But if there is a child who is going to cause upset to your dc or others then I don't see why you should invite them.

Dd2's had someone who makes (in front of me so not hearsay) concerted effort to stop people talking or playing with others. She'll insert herself and draw the other child away, as soon as she's got them away from dd2 and doing something else she'll leave them and go and remove the next person from dd2.
No point talking to her dm as lets just say apple hasn't fallen far from the tree there. It's totally deliberate because she's said things like "I'm going to do (activity dd2 does) and I'm going to make sure you have no friends there"
No way would I invite her.

Chipped, I think there are 2 groups of kids that people Referring to on this thread: those with SEN (possibly undiagnosed) who are a bit different and who may not be that popular at school because of it. And nasty, badly-behaved kids whose parents are frankly similar. I'm sure most people would have no problem inviting the former; it's the latter type that people feel absolutely firm in their decision that such children should not be invited.

Of course Curly but there will be a reason why the child is like that.
No one is saying you have to have them to the party. The solution is simple have a smaller party. They never play equally with everyone in the class - choose the ones they are most friendly with.

But if the poor child has horrible parents it is not their fault! That is why they are horrible themselves! No need to be horrible back by making it clear they are the only one excluded. Have a smaller party.

It is very easy to be a nice child if you have, kind, loving parents with boundaries - much more difficult if you have completely dysfunctional parents or ones who won't parent properly.

Mehitabel - I understand what you are saying, but it does seem unfair on the rest of the class that they have to change their party plans to allow for the bad behaviour of one child/small number of DCs.

It's really unfair on some children who do get one with pretty much everyone else in the class that they have to pick only a small group to avoid hurting the feelings of a child who has hurt their feelings previously.

I do also think the bigger problem is the way schools handle handing out invites in a way it is obvious. Better to put them in book bags so it's not as obvious that not all DCs are invited. (I know that clearly DS hasn't been invited to some parties this year as he's not been invited to 29 parties, but then its not been obvious enough that they were going on for him to say anything/notice)

My daughter spent a week being told by a boy in her class that she was the only person not invited as he hates her. DD1 is generally inoffensive and popular, although as ever she isn't invited to everything as one can't be. Discrete enquiries confirmed that she was the only one from 30 not invited. She didn't seem bothered, and in fact quite a few of her close friends didn't go for various reasons. I was a bit as to why the mum would let him do this though... Didn't challenge her, it didn't seem worth it. I was a bit worried that she had been nasty to him at school, but teacher confirmed if anything it was the other way round. He climbed over a toilet door once and spat at her while on the toilet (dealt with very firmly by the school), so actually I would have probably quietly binned the invite. Just curious as to what he has been telling his mum!

I absolutely disagree. Why should a parent change their choice of party in order to make a nasty child feel less left out? In my view they NEED to be taught that their poor behaviour at parties has consequences. Schools do not hesitate to withdraw privileges such a trip somewhere etc if a child does not modify their behaviour. At least in secondary. Part of that is as a punishment for consistently poor behaviour, part of it is so they do not ruin the trip/treat for the rest of the children. The same should apply to "treats" out of school. Especially when others are paying and parents are responsible for their guests' enjoyment of the party. I feel really strongly about this actually!

When I hold a party for my DS it is up to him who comes. This year we hired a hall and bouncy castle etc and there was one boy in his class that DS was adamant he did not want to come. No bullying going on, he just doesn't like this boy's behaviour and it would upset and stress DS if this boy were invited so we didn't invite him and I have no qualms about this. The party is a treat for my DS. Why would I spoil it for him by inviting someone he doesn't want there. My DS's feelings are much more important to me than the other child.

BTW children having SEN doesn't make any difference to me. I have taught DS to be understanding about SEN especially as he was often hit by an autistic child in his class. I taught DS ways to understand and deal with this child and they are good friends now and this boy came to DS's party. If my son likes a child they can come whether they have SEN or not. I'm not going to apply different rules for children with SEN.

I expect it's much more common that children are excluded for being unpopular than for being aggressive.

A particular child that I am thinking about actually displayed behaviour that was so vindictive and sly that some of the kids started being reluctant to go to parties that they knew this child had been invited to. How is that then fair to the birthday child, methitabel?