David Cameron has finally admitted that "integration is not working"

[WhetherOrNot]

AIBU to think that he should have cottoned on about 10 years ago, not now when it is so glaringly obvious as to be an embarrassment for everyone?

Well that's true, we all love a good moan don't we!

Not sure if stupidity has a skin colour tbh - I've met stupid people of every colour and the opposite too.

I agree that the timing of DC's speech was designed to deflect attention away from the Welfare Reform Bill, however that being the case, the posts denigrating him appear to be denying that there is any problem at all with growing Islamic extremism/conservatism in this country and abroad when there quite clearly is and not just with a few few hardline nutters.

If 2000 or so have actually gone to join ISIL, we can extrapolate that there will be at least as many if not many multiples more who have similar sentiments but who for one reason or another can't go themselves. Over 40 actual terrorist plots have been foiled in this country since 7/7 and significant numbers have been convicted and jailed www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/theresa-may-british-security-services-foiled-40-terror-plots-since-77-attacks-9879712.html

We have mainstream mosques in this country e.g. East London Mosque who openly sympathise with and promote terrorists and whose ultimate aim is to replace British law with Sharia.

standforpeace.org.uk/islamic-forum-of-europe/

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2010/mar/04/islamic-forum-europe-dispatches-gilligan

It is the hard and soft islamists who are responsible for this growing gulf between a significant number of muslims and the rest of the populace and who are responsible for the segregation and closed communities that some posters have described. Its these people DC is targeting - Not your lovely muslim neighbour and work colleague. To deflect the attention away from this onto some straw man argument is complete stupidity as its these Islamists who will be responsible for the atrocity that kills your loved one in future acts of Islamic terrorism.

And wrt to British values, how about
acceptance of homosexuality ?
“East London has seen the highest increase in homophobic attacks anywhere in Britain. Everybody knows why, and nobody wants to say it. It is because East London has the highest Muslim population in Britain, and we have allowed a fanatically intolerant attitude towards gay people to incubate there, in the name of ‘tolerance’.
www.pinknews.co.uk/2011/02/25/gay-journalist-johann-hari-calls-for-open-debate-on-muslim-homophobia/

Suport for free speech
-so that cartoonists, novelists and critics don't have to live in fear of being murdered and we don't have to self-censor ourselves

Support for freedom of religion

• so that muslims who wish to leave their faith can do so openly and not have to lead a double life, be ostracised or live in fear of violent retribution

www.spectator.co.uk/features/9453112/how-liberal-britain-is-betraying-ex-muslims/

Support for sexual equality and emancipation

• so that all muslim girls and women have the same opportunities as non-muslim girls and have the freedom to complete their education rather than be dragged off for a forced marriage, or be killed if they bring 'dishonour' or abducted and have their genitals cut off, or be forced to cover when they don't want to and not partake in everyday activities deemed un-islamic and not befitting a muslim woman.

Acceptance of British Law in all aspects

• and not parallel legal systems such as Sharia Law that leaves women at a disadvantage struggling to obtain divorce, that forces them to become co-wives, leaves them in fear of losing their children or financially bereft of financial support in the case of divorce instigated by her.

www.onelawforall.org.uk/sharia-courts/

Intolerance of domestic violence

• rather than condoning it through religious scripture.

I could go an and on, but frankly I don't have the time or the inclination to keep repeating myself and debating with conspiracy theorists, those with their head in the sands and false moral equivalencers. Thankfully MN is not actually reflective of the vast majority of sensible people in this country who recognise that we do in fact have a real problem.

I don't know where to begin really to describe how despicably awful and just plain wrong this self seeking, populist, wank bag Cameron is. But I've got to try, firstly ~ the overwhelming majority of Muslims don’t want in any way an Isis-style state. They do not want religious leaders to hold direct legislative or political power at all. Meticulous research has revealed this.

The actual amount of British Muslims are believed to have gone to fight for Isis, (of course, how ever many it is, is too many) but it's actually less than 0.02 per cent of the UK’s 2.7 million Muslims.

Cameron makes no reference to the fact that we and the U.S have created the background out of which the ISIS lunatics have flourished. That they are the homegrown product of the turmoil that has engulfed: Iraq since the U.S. invasion in 2003 and Syria in 2011. (Oh and then there's the utter decimation of Libya) as well. But no, that's got nothing to do with it!

In his blather, Cameron denies the connection between 'radicalisation' and Muslim's 'historic grievances'. His reason for that are simple: not content with demonising domestic Muslim communities, he's actively trying to clear the way for his further ad hoc bombing of Syria. And so the vicious circle can continue.

Cameron's answer? A further clampdown on Muslim's (who incidentally - according to a recent YouGov poll are more patriotic Britons than Scots) civil liberties of course!!! This will obviously get 'them' to identify more fully with our British values of tolerance, democracy and free speech. Well done Dave....That'll sort it all out.

Anyone who knows anything, knows that the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is the major ideological source of jihadist ideology, did he mention them? Don't be silly, we coddle this ghastly regime because of oil. Other muslim states that are allied to the west, that are just as appalling are Turkey, UAE amongst others.

Two years ago, public opinion and opposition to war forced Cameron (who's now proved himself as big-a-liar as Tony Blair) to say he 'got' that public and parliament were against the war and promised that the government would 'act accordingly'. We now know he was lying. He could hardly not 'get' the way parliament had voted, but he has since authorised British bombing of Syria anyhow.

MM tells it as it is.
The answers aren't easy but lots of contact between different people in the cities and children at school with children of different cultures helps. White flight does not help. However places like London have always had China Towns, jewish areas, and whatever group has come here next who then in the past anyway have largely moved away and integrated although it can take a few generations. Requirements to learn English (although you'd have to apply that to the Welsh I suppose), perhaps cutting all religion out of schools including the Cof E expelled from the schools of Cameron's children might help too.

(I am in I think just about the most religiously mixed area of the UK where luckily everyone largely lives in peace which is a huge testament to the spirit of tolerance of just about all groups in the UK).

... and the British people sit and debate about the rights of their fellow citizens, and why they need to be brought to heal, all the while having their own food removed, their own health care eroded, their employment curtailed, and the future prospects of their own children destroyed. Ironic isn't it? Karma maybe?

Thankfully MN is not actually reflective of the vast majority of sensible people in this country who recognise that we do in fact have a real problem.

This ^^ absolutely.

You cannot legislate away stupidity. It has specific skin colour

Really? And what skin colour would that be?

There is some crap on this thread.

most british people haven't met any muslims

Considering that almost 1 in 20 of the population is a Muslim that's highly unlikely.

As for this being like the 'rhetoric against the Jews in the 1930s'. In the 1930s the Jews had not violently conquered an area the size of Israel, a rich Jewish nation was not bankrolling and promoting extremism across the world, they had not destabilised countries from Tunisia to Nigeria to Somalia to Nigeria. They hadn't committed atrocities of mass murder, they hadn't kidnapped hundreds of girls or slaughtered whole villages. They didn't have entire cities which they banned non-Muslims from. They didn't control many states where non-Muslims were persecuted. In fact, if the fate of anybody at the moment could be compared to the holocaust, it's Christians in Muslim countries who are at the sharp end of Muslim persecution.

www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/christians-the-worlds-most-persecuted-people-9630774.html

It's estimated 100,000 Christians a year are murdered for their faith or 11 every hour. If you're going to compare anything in the world at the moment to the 1930s I personally would compare it to the period of appeasement of the Nazi's where we were told if we just gave them what they wanted they'd be happy and stop.

This country has been built on the backs of immigration, from the Celts and Picts through to the Romans and Germanic tribes who formed the English race and the Normans who laid the basis of modern life.

Do you have any idea what happened to the people who already lived here when these waves of immigration took place? The Romans brutally oppressed the Celts and there were a series of violent, unpleasant wars. Roman invasion also was more of a process of cultural change and did not involve any mass migration.

The Anglo-Saxons also fought and displaced a lot of the previous populace, treated them badly and appropriated their wealth.

As for the Normans, you might like to look up 'The Harrying of the North' for a nice example of ethnic cleansing and genocide which resulted in entire counties being depopulated, famines so bad cannibalism was reported.

We've had small waves of immigration since then where in the main (except perhaps some of the Jewish in very small numbers) they have assimilated into the society of Britain. We've never before had a situation where such large numbers of people moved here who have to a large extent entirely kept their own culture and so roundly rejected that of the nation they live in.

The comparable situations I can think of off the top of my head are the Protestant settlement of Ulster and the creation of Israel as a Jewish state. And look how well they worked out eh, no trouble to see there, move along!

I'm also loving the fact that there are several 'right on' people on this thread who are declaring how tolerant we should all be while mocking, sneering and denigrating poor white people. But then they're fair game aren't they?

In an ironical twist Ellie turns out to be one of the less tolerant people on the thread.

Post was meant to read 'It has no specific skin colour.' Bloody iPad.

... I had wondered after horsey's response, but didn't go back to check.

Certainly explains some of the more cryptic responses I got.

Our dear leader me and tyson were curious about the anti whitists

ourdearleader

I never said they were shining examples on how to lead a good life did I!

And yes, I have a very good idea of what happened to the people here. My POINT was to the people that think British people are a race with no outside blood as it were are wrong. I made no comment on any of the historical atrocities because it wasn't the point I was attempting to make. It was more a response to the 'I will hate peaceful law abiding people simply because they moved to my country' type of mindset.
If you will read to the end of my post I have also said that I believe something needs to be done about the current issues. I also said if you believe the way it is being handled is wrong then take your excellent typing skills and turn of phrases somewhere constructive, instead of venting your vitriol on a faceless poster on the 'tinternet!

ourdearleader

I never said they were shining examples on how to lead a good life did I!

And yes, I have a very good idea of what happened to the people here. My POINT was to the people that think British people are a race with no outside blood as it were are wrong. I made no comment on any of the historical atrocities because it wasn't the point I was attempting to make. It was more a response to the 'I will hate peaceful law abiding people simply because they moved to my country' type of mindset.
If you will read to the end of my post I have also said that I believe something needs to be done about the current issues. I also said if you believe the way it is being handled is wrong then take your excellent typing skills and turn of phrases somewhere constructive, instead of venting your vitriol on a faceless poster on the 'tinternet!

We had a lot of Ugandan Asians after Idi Amin. We also had a lot of people from Jamaica too after WWII. They have all on the whole integrated as have some muslims. However both those cultures are in a sense better than Muslim cultures because their women tend to work hard and outside the home and they are fairer to women than the sexism of Islam and the other issue is younger Muslims instead of getting more and more like the rest of us as say 3rd generation Indian hindus might do have gone in a sense backwards. Their mothers who never cover up despair at the teenagers moving into the dark ages. So it is an interesting radicalisation and the generations getting less progressive rather than more so which you rarely see. That of course is a generalisation as there are plenty of muslims who do not even cover their head in the UK and whose women are senior doctors and the like.

I suspect most of us would be happy for people who want to move abroad to breed suicide bombers or go abroad to kill to be allowed to go and then not allowed to return.

I think that people who go abroad in those circumstances should definitely not be allowed back!

I suspect most of us would be happy for people who want to move abroad to breed suicide bombers or go abroad to kill to be allowed to go and then not allowed to return.

I think that people who go abroad in those circumstances should definitely not be allowed back!

Is this specifically directed towards Muslims because you have selected a side to back on foreign soil? Or do you extend that to all who go abroad to fight, who are not sent there in the name of Queen and Country?

How can you have Ugandan Asians?

How can you have Ugandan Asians?

Assume she meant Ugandan Muslims?

I think the feeling is anyone who wants to blow us up in the name of religan, regardless of race etc! Sorry, being light hearted. I've just wound up googling meaning behind 'in the night garden' due to another thread. My brain no longer works.

They were a well established and economically successful Asian community within Uganda who were expelled in the 1970s by Idi Amin. Many came to Britain with nothing and set up again in business.

I had no idea about that. You learn something new every day.

How bloody awful though for those 60,000 people expelled from their country because they were Asian.

I'd hate to see Britain go down that route.