To think that children do care about living in a very messy house?

[bakingmadmum]

A friend of mine put one of those quote thingies on FB today. It is about how the house is messy,because she is spending time with the children,and the children won't care because when they grow up, they will remember the memories, and not the state of the house.

Now, while I largely agree with this, the friend in question has a very, very messy house, bordering on dirty. I am not judging her for this- she has two small children, a large dog, and her husband is a lazy fucking manchild not much help. I know (because she has told me) that the state of the house annoys her. They can't use the kitchen table because it is snowed under, the children are in the same bedroom because the other one is full of junk... They can't use the garden because it is too dangerous. The husband keeps all his hoard of tools and equipment out there, even though they get rained on and rusty.

The thing is, my mum was raised in a similar household. She often talks about how, even as a small child, she was mortified and refused to bring friends over, as she couldn't bear them to see the house. Dirty nappies on the floor for days, the dining room covered in oil because that is where the bikes/junk was thrown, etc. She once visited a friend's house- the family wasn't rich, very solid working class- and thinking they were living in the lap of luxury, because their curtains were clean. She was about 11, and was genuinely baffled- how did they keep them so clean?

Mum has gone the other way now- she is a total clean freak, to the point where it caused massive rows at times, when I was a teen. She couldn't cope with what was, in hindsight, natural teen messiness. Things like a bit of toothpaste on the sink. It was like walking on eggshells for all of us. She has calmed down a bit now, thankfully.

Anyway, I feel a bit sorry for my friend and her children. The kids can't use the table for crafts, or homework, or family dinners, they can't go and play in their own garden. I can't help but feel that this will start to effect them when they get older, despite my friend's denial.

gotthearse - just a thought, have you got any advice about any help available for Indantherene?

Thought provoking thread.

I grew up in a messy/dirty house. Mice, weevils etc. Getting yelled at if I threw (mouldy) food away.

It hasn't made me a neat freak, I struggle with tidying and have also got too attached to 'stuff' (I was very unhappy as a child, so looking back I can see that I got security from objects rather than people).

I am starting to break the mental hold of 'stuff' but unfortunately I now have a chronic illness that makes it very hard to actually declutter and tidy. It's incredibly frustrating.

My DD is happy to have friends over but I can see the mess does get to her. She is very messy herself, like me, so I never have a go at her (that was one thing that really got to me when I was a kid - being shouted at for having a messy room. Why couldn't my parents see that I was simply copying the rest of the house? How could I learn to be tidy when nobody showed me how?). Instead when we try and tidy up, if she complains, I just tell her we are learning together so we can all have a nicer home.

I rebelled against my shit tip childhood by becoming relatively tidy, organised and neat. I'm still messy compared to DP though.

We have a four year old, he's a typical messy scruff but if I'm honest, I'm not sure how so much mess can be made in some people's houses when the inhabitants are mostly out all day.

We don't have time to grind crisps and glitter into the carpet if you see what I mean.

My mum always blamed us for the mess as kids, I guess most of it was us, but we were kids. My mum and my dad are both messy people and both continue to live in child free, messy houses in which jobs go undone for years and Christmas decorations lurk all year round despite them now being retired.

I guess they just aren't arsed. For them, I think it's a sixties/ seventies mindset of 'hey we're cool, tidying is for squares and uptight Tories' . I know for my mum it was very much a feminist issue too, she was damned if she was going to sew on buttons or wash windows when there were books to be read and protest marches to go on.

I'm able to do tidying and also read books :) My parents are ace, but their homes stress me out. I don't get how anybody could choose to live like that.

I'm tackling my house this week on the strength of this thread. I grew up in a tidy house, not obsessively so, just nice. My mother despairs over the current state of my house and I know it's not helping my depression as home is my safe place but at the same time I hate being here because of it. My constant excuse is that it needs decorating, which it does. But we can't decorate till we clear it. And that's happening now.

I don't think that young children should get roped into doing house work. As a 7/8/9 year old my Mum used to involve me constantly in proper housework e.g. dusting, hovering under sofa cushions, cleaning bathrooms. I bitterly resented it at the time and looking back I think it was very inappropriate. My Mum now admits that she had definite ishoos that verged on OCD [shrugs]

Since being at school DD has been expected to make an effort to keep her bedroom tidy. Just 5 minutes before bedtime each night was always enough. But I never expected her to hoover and dust it, or clean her windows.

Now that she's started secondary school I do sometimes get her to hoover and dust her bedroom but this is rare. I believe it is far more important that she gets all her homework done to a good standard and then has time to spend with her friends/doing sport. But she is responsible for still keeping her room tidy and making her bed every morning. In the evenings she always clears the table after dinner and loads the dishwasher. But that's the sum total of her domestic chores.

I think that if you can manage to get your home to a reasonable standard of tidiness and cleanliness then it's easy to keep on top of it. Personally I find living in mess and clutter highly stressful. I hate not being able to lay my hands on something straight away.

I give our house a thorough clean once a week. But every other day I also do what I call 'light housework' so all the loos and washbasins get a quick wipe over with a disposable bathroom wipe, and a squirt of bleach down the loos. I straighten the sofas and quickly hoover the living room and kitchen. Kitchen surfaces, sinks and kitchen table are wiped down every day, often twice.

All together it only takes about 30 mins every other day, but keeps the house feeling fresh and tidy. Then 2-3 times a year I hire in a cleaning company to do a really deep clean, and there's 3 of them here all day and the house feels as clean as an operating theatre afterwards

I think it's vital kids get roped into housework.

I agree that children should have some household chores, but they should be age appropriate.

I don't think it appropriate for a 7/8 year to be cleaning bathrooms or hoovering etc.

My dh lived with his narcissistic alchoholic dad in a very messy flat. So messy it was condemned. He never had friends over as a child & was quite messy when I met & didn't really know how to clean. I think his dad did him a massive disservice.
I think children want a secure home. This doesn't mean perfect but I think it does include somewhere you would be happy to have your friends too.

This is a really interesting thread. I grew up in a house that was not tidy/clean at the best of times, and after my parents separated when I was 16 it got progressively worse. My Mum didn't stay on top of it (and I admit as a teenager I wasn't much help) - and the place was disgusting. It got worse after I went to Uni, the kitchen floor was always dirty with trodden in food and crumbs, washing up never done, Mum's room always a state with plates, mugs, laundry etc, mould on some walls that she did nothing about until I really kicked off about the health hazards. Looking back, she had depression (and has still struggled on and off) - she is now slowly getting the house under control as her first grandchild is due early next year and she knows I will be fussy about the cleanliness. I do remember when I was in sixth form and home from university being really reluctant to invite friends round, and did dread going home and living in that state. I still don't like taking OH round my Mum's as I find it embarrassing (particularly as his parents house is lovely).

As an adult, it has made me really quite fussy about cleanliness. I can deal with clutter, a pile of laundry etc. But I cannot bear the kitchen being a state and the floors and the bathroom not being clean. I also really hate cups and glasses being in bedrooms and rooms of clutter (at the moment our tiny room still has boxes in from moving house and I'm quite ashamed of it!). Mould turns my stomach, and the one time we had a teeny tiny patch due to a major leak, I attacked it with mould spray and spend three weeks constantly monitoring the area obsessively looking for any tiny speck!

That said, I did once (just after splitting up from a hideous boyfriend) let the house go exactly like my Mum did in similar circumstances. I was living alone in a grotty flat (all I could afford and no other options) in a horrid end of town, and living alone really didn't agree with me. Looking back I was probably depressed and I do remember finding everything a bit of a struggle - house was a state, I wasn't doing the washing up, bathroom was hideous, there were damp problems in the flat due to no heating. It was awful, and has given me a lot more sympathy for my Mum.

I grew up in a messy household. Our house was always very untidy, cluttered and disorganised. I can't remember it being excessively dirty or unhygienic but floors went without vacuuming for quite a long time, laundry not done particularly frequently. Bed linen not changed that often. Kitchen extremely cluttered with stuff covering every surface.

It had quite a profound and lasting effect on me and my 2 siblings.

We were very embarrassed from a young age- around 8 or so - to have friends round. In fact I started avoiding it, which did affect me socially as friends thought I was rude. I was even embarrassed when baby sitters came round. I hated it, I didn't feel that we had a comfortable home.
Prior to age 7 or 8 I don't think we noticed but it did become very obvious from around that age.

It also had an effect on me in the sense that I was not taught how to look after a house, my bedroom was an absolute tip. Piles of clothes on the floor, and desk I couldn't do my homework at because it was covered in crap. Never made my bed.
My own mess embarrassed me as well. Which I know sounds ridiculous..

Saying that, we all had high standards of personal hygiene - very regular hair washing, baths/showers, excellent dental care/hygiene.

Now, I would say I'm a tidy and organised person, but it was 'self-taught' and took a few years of seeing how other people lived. I realised how important teaching my dc basic housekeeping/organisations skills is.
They make their beds each morning, they put clothes either in the laundry or away in cupboards, they help clear away dishes, they go around their rooms every couple of weeks and throw away rubbish, clear clutter and organise toys, trinkets, art etc.

As they get older they'll do more.

Our house is not pristine, but it is always clean. There's sometimes a bit of clutter, with things lying around and but DH and I make sure it's never embarrassing for the dc.

hesterton I also think my mum had depression when I was a child which contributed hugely to the lack of housework. I remember my Dad trying to get on top of it and he did a lot of cooking and was very involved around the house and with us but it was still a mess!

WhoreGasm raises a very important point: it's easy to clean a clean house, and harder the dirtier/messier it is.

This morning I wanted to Hoover. Because it had been totally tidy when we came down this morning it took about ten minutes in total to Hoover four rooms and the stairs. If I'd needed to do fifteen minutes of tidying up first then I'd have run out of time and the hoovering wouldn't have happened. Multiply that by a house and it's easy to see how a tidy house stays clean with minimal effort and a messy house just gets worse and worse despite hours of effort.

That is very true, MrsH. My sons get to do the tidying up part before I vacuum, on the grounds that if it's still on the ground when I'm vacuuming, and it goes into the vacuum cleaner, then that's their loss. It works pretty well, and they quite enjoy squealing in mock panic as I chase their toes and toys with the vacuum head (it's a cylinder, not an upright and I never get near enough to hurt them). Certainly gives them more incentive to help with the tidying up - and speeds them up!

Helpforhoarders.co.uk is a good place to start if you are worried about someone, or want to know more.

I work as a chef in a busy kitchen for upwards of 45 hours pw, I'm the non-resident parent of my 4yo DS, I live with my partner in a miniscule flat that is utterly jammed with clutter because we have too much stuff for a small space - but you know what? The clutter is organised, I've done the best with the space we have, and my house is very well turned out.

I grew up in a messy, dirty, filthy house with half-painted walls, odd carpets, spare laminate floor about, rubble in the back... I absolutely loved it until I was 14, at which point I begun to loathe it because I was the one who ended up taking the majority of the cleaning under wing, and noone else even bothered to do the washing-up. My M&F's excuses were that they work longer hours than my school-hours therefore I had the most time to devote to the upkeep.

I fucking hated every second of that, because it would inevitably end up piling up until I'd have to devote an entire day to just one room.

This is why I keep my house tidy as possible now - with the help of my DP who is damned useful!

I have a couple of friends who refuse to believe how little time I actually spend cleaning. Their houses are really chaotic so any cleaning takes them forever because everywhere is so cluttered. And even when they have finished the results aren't noticeable because of the general mess.

Whereas because I keep our home constantly tidy it's so quick and easy to actually clean it.

Yes they do care OP and your friend sounds like she could do with some outside help for the sake of her poor children.

My BF(we've been friends since we were 4)of nearly 36 years lived in a house like you described and hated it bless her!

I was the only one she let in the house,we lived 2 doors along from one another and my parents weren't well off,but my God our houses and the way we lived were miles apart.

I can remember when we were only about 11 my poor friend was so depressed about the house that she wanted to tidy it all up.Her Mum was out for the day so we got to work.We spent hours and hours sorting that house out,we managed to sort the living room,the kitchen,the hallway and bathroom.

My poor friends bedroom and the 2 other bedrooms still looked a tip,her Mum never dusted,hoovered,washed anything,chucked anything away ever and she used to put crap she wanted to keep into my friends bedroom as well.

She came running along to me the next day crying her eyes out,within less than 24 hours her mother had started wrecking all the hard work my BF had done.Bless her I cried for her,I think my Mum did go along and have ago at BF Mum,my parents treated my BF like part of the family(were Sisters as far as were concerned)they knew what the house was like and how much my BF hated it and how hard she'd tried.

The state of the house still causes concern and resentment between my Best Friend and her Mum sadly,her Mum has never changed and her Mum wasn't raised that way,her Mum,my BF's Nan was a lovely lady and kept her house lovely and tidy and still found time to spend with her children when they were growing up and with her grandchildren when they came along.

I vividly recall the state of my Dad's car when I was a child. Ours house was spotless, really far too much so, which weirdly put me off having friends round a bit. I knew their houses were more 'lived in' and hated my mum making us sit on plastic sofa covers and hoovering round us as we played... But the car was filthy, full of junk, paperwork and food wrappers, and smelled of rotting food. So I wouldn't invite friends over as I knew we'd have to pick them up and take them home in The Car!

Strangely this stopped as soon as my Dad was able to buy a brand new car for the first time, instead of an old rust bucket. Then it seems to house rules began to apply to the car as well.

God I used to curl up and want to die if we saw someone we knew while out, and we offered them a lift...

Kids really do care about this stuff. My house is not always the tiniest, but it is clean, and so is my car.

Its this insistence that its cleaning OR reading, cleaning OR playing with your children that hacks me off.

No it isn't. As a neuro typical adult who albeit disabled is able to walk around and pick stuff up without help, it is simply a question of balance. You can - and should - do both.

Either extreme is unhealthy and not good for children. And of course they notice and of course they care. Children aren't some weird non human species that don't feel shame and embarrassment. They probably care much more than adults as they haven't developed much sense of perspective or coping mechanisms.

^ agree Spero hate how its either or and I am personally testify that forcing your dc to live in a prison of rules and cleanliness is just as damaging as a total fly infested tip.

Its this insistence that its cleaning OR reading, cleaning OR playing with your children that hacks me off.

Yes.

I grew up in a dirty, messy house and I hated it! My mum just couldn't be bothered. Her day was basically getting us out to school, reading, making an evening meal and sending us to bed as early as possible. I was still being sent to bed at 8pm when I started high school.

We could never have friends over because of the mess. Eventually your friends start asking why you never have them over to yours, why are you always at theirs. So you go to their houses less because there's no way you can bring them into your house. You end up being cut off and lonely.

I don't know why my mum was so lazy, my granny kept a clean house. It got to the point at home that if mum did tidy we'd ask who was coming over. Then there was a slap for being cheeky. And eventually that afternoon some relative from out of town would show up.