To think that children do care about living in a very messy house?

[bakingmadmum]

A friend of mine put one of those quote thingies on FB today. It is about how the house is messy,because she is spending time with the children,and the children won't care because when they grow up, they will remember the memories, and not the state of the house.

Now, while I largely agree with this, the friend in question has a very, very messy house, bordering on dirty. I am not judging her for this- she has two small children, a large dog, and her husband is a lazy fucking manchild not much help. I know (because she has told me) that the state of the house annoys her. They can't use the kitchen table because it is snowed under, the children are in the same bedroom because the other one is full of junk... They can't use the garden because it is too dangerous. The husband keeps all his hoard of tools and equipment out there, even though they get rained on and rusty.

The thing is, my mum was raised in a similar household. She often talks about how, even as a small child, she was mortified and refused to bring friends over, as she couldn't bear them to see the house. Dirty nappies on the floor for days, the dining room covered in oil because that is where the bikes/junk was thrown, etc. She once visited a friend's house- the family wasn't rich, very solid working class- and thinking they were living in the lap of luxury, because their curtains were clean. She was about 11, and was genuinely baffled- how did they keep them so clean?

Mum has gone the other way now- she is a total clean freak, to the point where it caused massive rows at times, when I was a teen. She couldn't cope with what was, in hindsight, natural teen messiness. Things like a bit of toothpaste on the sink. It was like walking on eggshells for all of us. She has calmed down a bit now, thankfully.

Anyway, I feel a bit sorry for my friend and her children. The kids can't use the table for crafts, or homework, or family dinners, they can't go and play in their own garden. I can't help but feel that this will start to effect them when they get older, despite my friend's denial.

Yes, it's a matter of degree in all directions, isn't it? Our house was very messy and chaotic when I was a child, but ultimately clean and very liveable, and was mainly messy because so many people were welcomed in and were busy doing/making/ things. I am a very ordered person in many ways, and HAVE to have a very very clean house because of DH's disability, but I hope we retain that welcoming, comfortable atmosphere I remember from childhood.

When we moved here from our last house, which was really quite a rotten place to live - very poor, run down, tiny - my godsons announced they preferred my old house, it was MUCH better than this one. This is a freaking palace in comparison, frankly, but it's half an hour from them instead of round the corner, and we had the toys in a different box. Priorities!

I love my brother's house, which is a complete jumble but just very cosy and inviting. I like all kinds of different houses. I do have some friends whose houses are grim but that is really because they have lost control of them in a practical way like there is shit on things and they smell bad, you know? Just like if they were personally covered in poo I would worry about them and think something had gone wrong (and offer to help - I do go and help clean up because I've got this sort of superpower by now).

Basically so long as one can easily sit down and have a cup of tea without feeling alarmed for the mental or physical health of one's host, it's okay.

My brother and SIL live in a very messy house, dirty in fact. Thick caked on dust, stuff all over the floors and a horrible stuffy smell that pervades to the point you can smell them a couple of metres away. They have always been like this. When it was just the two of them, fair enough they can live however they want but now they have a 9 year old daughter I feel so sad for her that she doesn't have a clean & tidy house to live in. I don't want her to be humiliated by peers but I do hope that she shames them into getting things cleaned. We have all tried to tackle it with them but he has just told us where to go - he sees us as the nagging family ganging up. There is only 1 full time job between them so no excuses really.

My house is by no means a show home, I do wish I could keep on top of the mess more often - but my house is by and large clean, I always clean & tidy before someone comes over (esp bro & SIL!!) and at present we are both working full time with a baby on the way so energy for cleaning at weekends is in limited supply but I know it will be done and by the time our baby arrives late autumn our house will be clean and tidy! Then we'll just have to keep it that way.

I grew up in a house chick full of animals and whilst it wasn't dirty it was very untidy. I loved it as a kid and loathed it as a teenager.

I lived in both extremes growing up and neither are ideal. Mum wasn't neglectful just didn't have enough time. I used to hate the mess and the chaos it brings. We could never find things, I have to leave brownies as I was ashamed I couldn't keep my bits together - you know 10p, little bit of string. I never had books or pe kit for school as they could never be found. My baptism candle was lost and at my first holy communion I had to use a household candle- funnily enough that is one thing that has really stuck. There isn't anything from my childhood and now each DC has a memory box of special bits.

When I was older I lived with dad and SM. She was Mrs bucket on steroids! You used to get the evil eye for putting a glass down. She used to go mad at us but we had no idea how to be tidy- she made my life a misery. As a teenager I used to put the wrong cups on the wrong tree mug just to annoy her - it was that extreme!

I now live in a happy medium but I am wary of going to extreme in either direction. I think kids do notice and I am trying hard to install good habits from an early age so its second nature - no idea if it will work mind!

Hubby's mother is hoarder although in deep denial and he cringes when we go over and feels the need to apologies for her.

I do hate visiting a messy house as it uncomfortable. I do agree with that stupid verse, I know someone who justifies her state of a house with it- I don't visit her anymore. However I really try not to judge as I doubt many people do it through choice.

Eerrr DONT agree!!!

I agree children notice and mind very much.

I was at boarding school and went home one weekend to stay with a day girl and playing hide and seek. I hid under her bed and the rancid mouldy collection of half-eaten cereal bowls made me vomit. I was mortified, but her parents thought it was funny. When we went back to school she said the vomit was still there because her parents had forgotten to clean it up and she didn't know how.

Poor child.

I think there's a difference - there's a combination of clean, messy, dirty, tidy.

Clean/ tidy
The "showhome" lots of posters like to sneer at, where kids are expected to tidy away a toy/game before getting out another one. Where glasses and dishes aren't left on table, but washed (or out in sink if you're younger). This was how I was raised and most of my friends, due to necessity of living in small flats (not in UK)

Clean / messy
You can have a clean house that's messy. Bathroom/kitchen are clean, walls and floors aren't sticky. But there's toys out, stuff on kitchen counters and table that needs putting away, floor that needs a quick Hoover. Takes you 10-20 min to tidy up at end of day.

Dirty/tidy
You can have a home where everything is out away, but it's covered in dust, bathroom and kitchen surfaces are sticky or have ring of dirt around them.

Dirty/ messy
The "filthy" home posters describe with stuff on floor and other surfaces, unable you to do things like eat at the table, etc.

Most posts focus on first and last, but my friends with children (and me) usually have the 2nd combo. What the house looks like depends on when in the day you visit.

I lived with a dm who polished everything, spent her entire days cleaning and I was expected to do cleaning after I had finished my homework. Only time we went away we had to come back within 2 days , was meant to be going away for 2 weeks, because she was worried about how much dust was settling. No days out, never went anywhere because of the cleaning. All I remember about my childhood was polishing skirting boards everyday. My house is a tip despite me spending 2 hours per day cleaning it. Something's dont get done but I won't stress about it. I just go out with dc at every opportunity

It's a happy medium. I grew up in the house you describe op, I couldn't have friends over, everything got lost, homework was destroyed. It was hard to do homework on the floor with the animals sitting on it.
It was a miserable childhood and certainly left its scars now. Sadly, I hate people coming over as I'm worried they'll judge so my son still suffers the 'don't have people over' even though I'm pretty sure my house is ok. Although that said I don't know how to clean, what to do and how often. Which adds to the paranoia of not having people over.

I know obsessive cleaners who are the opposite, throw everything of the childs away, spend more time cleaning then caring, they don't cook proper meals as it makes a mess. Don't do painting or colouring.They don't go out, just clean. It's not healthy, it's not happy either.
Somewhere in the middle is where you need to be

It is very difficult to play with toys that are lost, broken or disorganised, and if there is no space to play. I think you need a certain amount of organisation to enable fun and spontaneity.

My house is not very clean,my dh is horribly untidy, I have tried to reform him with little success, he is a kind, generous man, brilliant dad excellent cook, bike fixer BUT he just doesn't see the mess he will put things away if I ask but never notices, his side of the bedroom is vile, cant see the carpet. I tend to put doing sport before cleaning because I know he will do the same and I won't be a martyr. We have been together for 20 years I am not going to LTB but I think finding a life partner who matches your standards of tidiness is more important than you might think!

I absolutely agree that children notice and care.

I remember asking my mum if a friend could come round to play. I was maybe 8. My mum looked at me very sadly and said "no. And you know why not"

It had just got all too much and worn down by long working hours on little financial recompense in a damp and crumbling house my parents struggled.

I read a thread on here recently where a poster asked what to expect a teen to do during the summer holidays housework wise. In my teens I realised that the way to get friends over (I was allowed one trusted one in the end) was to clean myself. It took me all day every day to keep on top of it and i couldn't deal with the state of carpets or the mould on the walls but I could make it look more 'done'

My house now is always clean and generally sort of tidy.

Houses are not easy to maintain. Depression, over work, money, disability, difficult children, abusive relationships, , etc are real problems and impact on this.

I get a bit sick of all the "we don't judge" stuff and yet here we are women judging another woman's housekeeping. Has nothing changed?

I am not sure everyone is judging orange. I believe children do notice and care but that doesn't make me immune to the reasons a house can be hard to manage. My life experience taught me that but if others haven't had that then it will be harder to empathise.

Growing up, we had a cleaner twice a week. Coming home from school on the days she had been always made me happy! The house was sparkling and the evening were so much nicer. I was always so jealous of my friends who had immaculate homes...ours was fine but certainly not show home clean like some of my friends.

I try to keep my home clean and tidy as I feel it is so much nicer for children to live that way. Also keeping on top of the washing so they are never having to hunt in the laundry basket to find something. First thing I do when I wake up is make their beds and tidy their rooms so we never get to a stage where it becomes a tip. I don't mind a bit of mess as long as everything is clean, and once they are in bed a quick ten minute tidy is all it needs. If you keep on top of it, then you never have to spend too long making it ship shape again.

I think a clean, organised but comfortable home is perfect for growing up in. I hope my children always feel happy and relaxed about having friends over without having to worry that the place is in a state.

Forgot to mention, my parents were friends with a family whose house was a complete tip, despite the fact they were very well off. I remember going round there as a child and being horrified by it. Dirty washing carpeted the floor, the kitchen work surfaces were filthy and cluttered...it was truly awful. I think they were embarrassed by it and my mother was equally as horrified as me, though never mentioned if. I used to feel really sorry for the children and remember thinking, thank God our house is not like that.

DH grew up in a tidy show home, mostly because of his SF. He's the sort of man who will take your plate away the second you are putting the last piece of food in your mouth. Shoes in the house are a no-no, and no eating/drinking in the sitting room (he almost passed out when MIL gave me a cup of tea in there when I was heavily pregnant!) He frequently throws away MIL's stuff if he deems it unimportant, DH and his siblings always had to tidy their stuff away the second it was done with or it would end up in the bin.

Growing up like this has rendered DH unable to relax if the DC have toys out on the floor. I often need to remind him to leave them alone as the DC are still playing with them! We have compromised and encourage the DC to put one toy away for every one they get out. His DSis has gone the opposite way and lives in a constantly dirty and messy house. Whenever his SF comes over he will always comment on the amount of toys the DC have out or how many cups are in the kitchen for washing. DH is gradually starting to let this go over his head but it's taken some doing, so there is no doubt in my mind that growing up with either extreme is damaging to DC.

I grew up in a tidy house. I didn't like inviting friends over cos I was worried we would make a mess. Recently a friend of mine confessed that he felt uncomfortable coming to my house when we were kids for the same reason.

I spent most of my time after school in my best friend house. They were messy. Didn't matter if I left my glass of juice on the side or accidentally walked a bit of mud on their carpet. we could play and not worry if we spread the toys out everywhere :)

Swings and roundabouts I guess.

I'm not a naturally tidy person. I often forget to put things away and I'm one of those people that often has 4 or 5 things on the go, and nothing being actually completed in one go.

I am clean, but messy. Part of the problem is that not everything has somewhere to be put away to, and we're working on that at the moment. Getting rid of stuff and having homes for the rest of it. It's hard, especially with a DH who is also messy.

I quite like cleaning, but it's having to tidy shit up that bugs me. I need big signs around my house saying "Put it away FFS!"

Anyway, the baby is asleep now, time to go clean around the mess

I think there's a happy medium. A mother freaking out everytime toys aren't put back properly or someone puts a sticky hand on the bannister is not good for children's development.
But a dirty messy house is not a nice place to live either. While very small children probably won't notice, once they get old enough to be in and out of their friends' houses they will notice the difference and possibly feel ashamed to bring people home.
And I really hate this 'ooh I'm too busy having fun with my kids and being creative and quirky to be bothered about keeping the kitchen tidy' attitude.
It's such a pose.

Agree that its a matter of balance. I think children do notice if the house is dirty and also if there is some order and they know where things go they can use their toys/books better. However creating a show-home at the expense of spending time with them is worse.

I cared. I'm still not keen on people visiting if I'm at my parents'. They are moderate hoarders although have got rid of quite a lot of stuff. The cupboards are still stuffed with old clothes and bedding that isn't ever used. There are lots of books, CDs and newspapers in piles. Ornaments and old furniture that aren't loved nevertheless clutter up the place. I feel a bit sorry for my mum as although she has never had a desire to be a domestic goddess, she tries to declutter to an extent, but my dad doesn't help at all. I work hard to keep my mess and hoarding tendencies under control but what really makes the difference is having a DH who is clean, tidy and does more than his fair share around the house.

My parents did spend time with us growing up, but I would have loved to have been able to have friends over more often, without fear of embarrassment. What used to hurt is that I often had a messy bedroom (swung between immaculate and a complete tip) for which I was shouted at. My parents blamed us for the general mess, but now we've left home it's worse. They really struggle with the idea of waste and would rather palm things off to other people than throw something away. I too struggle with this so try to accumulate less in the first place.

There's a good reason I am a very tidy adult and that's because I grew up in a messy home. I hated it.

Mess is one thing, Squalor is another. DD moans about the state of house but not enough bothered to do 10% as much cleaning as we adults do.

DH's mum runs around after people picking up empty tea cups within seconds or taking away plates, etc. I presume that's why DH has rants at DC about invisible crumbs on the counter or elsewhere. Except DH doesn't emulate his mom's example by sorting it himself without moaning, he expects the children just to 'know' what to do to in how to pick up after selves (he has many other passive aggressive weirdities). There's a lot of that in ILs house. ILs have done things the same way for last 35 yrs & get confused when anybody doesn't follow their procedure.

My house is generally messier & dirtier than I would like. Surfaces are cleared & wiped daily & full clean weekly but still need a blitz before suitable for visitors. I am envious of those who are always on top of things. I do have a friend whose huge house is fit to burst with stuff. Dining room table, kitchen table & work surfaces, sofas & floor all covered. I always think how difficult it must make life & am relieved my house isn't that bad. I don't know what her dd thinks of it - at 6 she's maybe too young to be embarrassed.