To think that children do care about living in a very messy house?

[bakingmadmum]

A friend of mine put one of those quote thingies on FB today. It is about how the house is messy,because she is spending time with the children,and the children won't care because when they grow up, they will remember the memories, and not the state of the house.

Now, while I largely agree with this, the friend in question has a very, very messy house, bordering on dirty. I am not judging her for this- she has two small children, a large dog, and her husband is a lazy fucking manchild not much help. I know (because she has told me) that the state of the house annoys her. They can't use the kitchen table because it is snowed under, the children are in the same bedroom because the other one is full of junk... They can't use the garden because it is too dangerous. The husband keeps all his hoard of tools and equipment out there, even though they get rained on and rusty.

The thing is, my mum was raised in a similar household. She often talks about how, even as a small child, she was mortified and refused to bring friends over, as she couldn't bear them to see the house. Dirty nappies on the floor for days, the dining room covered in oil because that is where the bikes/junk was thrown, etc. She once visited a friend's house- the family wasn't rich, very solid working class- and thinking they were living in the lap of luxury, because their curtains were clean. She was about 11, and was genuinely baffled- how did they keep them so clean?

Mum has gone the other way now- she is a total clean freak, to the point where it caused massive rows at times, when I was a teen. She couldn't cope with what was, in hindsight, natural teen messiness. Things like a bit of toothpaste on the sink. It was like walking on eggshells for all of us. She has calmed down a bit now, thankfully.

Anyway, I feel a bit sorry for my friend and her children. The kids can't use the table for crafts, or homework, or family dinners, they can't go and play in their own garden. I can't help but feel that this will start to effect them when they get older, despite my friend's denial.

Yep, it makes you wonder what the excuse would be if people didn't have children.

Why would they need an excuse? I certainly never did. (I had 15 years of living alone/home ownership before DD came along.)

At least at my house you aren't banned from sitting on the sofas or forced to eat your food over the sink (as you are at my dear OCD sister's).

Yanbu. Untidy, bit dusty and in need of wiping kids sticky hand prints off the walls but basically hygienic is neither here nor there but either obsessively clean or too untidy/ dirty to use isn't on.

It's definitely middle ground. we are not hugely tidy, and can occasionally let it all over run, for various reasons, but we always keep it clean, and whenever the children have friends around we make a point of blitzing so they are not embarrassed. However, they are not bothered about it enough to help tidy their rooms for example.

I definitely have days where I say sod it, I'd rather be playing games with the children than sorting out the washing, or go to the beach instead of changing the bedding and tidying the bedrooms, but that is more about delaying the inevitable, not just failing to do it at all.

I had an ex-bf who's parents had the dirtiest house you could imagine. In retrospect a visit from social services was long overdue as they were clearly neglecting their DC's. My ex-bf was deeply ashamed and I would never allow my children to feel like that.

Like UseHerName I grew up in a house that looked (and still does) like a show home. This was with two parents who worked full time, two kids and several pets. It was spotless. It wasn't always fun though. True, I was never embarrassed by the mess but I could never leave anything out (even in my own room) and so much time was spent cleaning. It was to the point that if anything in my closet (so not in view) wasn't off the floor and put away neatly my dad would bag it up in a bin bag until I agreed to clean it.

I'm very glad it wasn't messy, but there is a happy medium.

I don't care about how others keep their houses and genuinely don't notice
If they mentioned being unhappy with it I would offer to help them or organise a cleaner etc
I think house stuff is often closeted sneery or judgeyness and that often we are living our lives as a reaction to our own negative childhood experience

There are some lovely and interesting and thought-provoking posts in this thread.

I grew up in a relatively clean but messy house. And I'm a bit of a hoarder, but I clean more than my parents ever did (they paid a cleaner). I've noticed by DD likes things to be tidy, but has no idea how to make it so, and I feel this is a fault of my parenting. She goes between hoarding and binning everything. She doesn't really tidy or clean without massive adult intervention.

I think I've failed her as a parent. I will get on to it....

If they are old enough to be upset and bothered by the mess, they are old enough to tidy up.

madwoman I definitely disagree with this. How is an 8/9/10yo supposed to even make a start on clearing the garden of junk, daily removal of pet hair, cleaning when the adult doesn't even have basic cleaning products available in the home eg toilet cleaner/cloths, getting rid of the smell of uncleaned oven/deep fat fryers that pervades the whole house...these are the exact sort of things which make a child embarrassed to have friends round, but theres not a damn thing they can do about it. I'm speaking from experience unfortunately.

And yes, children do care OP. They really do. I'm determined not to let that happen to my children.

Agree yanbu, this carry on about mess ie evidence of play being the same as a filthy, dirty, unhygienic environment is a nonsense. Folk don't understand that a dirty kitchen and bathroom make children ill.

I try to apply the nursery rule to clutter, if it's messier than I've ever seen in nursery a quick tidy up is needed, usually of things on the floor to avoid tripping hazards.

I have a friend whose home I envy. Everything is lived in enough to make it seem like it could be replaced but clean enough to be on the shabby chic side.

Some of the replies on this thread remembering dirty childhood homes are heart breaking.

Mess is absolutely fine, normal, pretty healthy.

Dirt is NOT. They aren't synonymous!

YANBU

My DS7 gets really upset on the odd occasion that he gets up in the morning and I haven't finished cleaning up the kitchen from the night before because we had a big dinner party or something

I hate mess too. I couldn't spend time with kids until the house was in order anyway because I hate the house being a mess. Once it's sorted, I'll spend time with the kids. I don't think it's an either / or thing at all! I'm a mere mortals and I can manage both!

Agree with pp who have said mess and dirt are two different things though.

For me, a house is too messy when you can't use the rooms properly for their intended purpose e.g- can't use the table to eat on as it's covered in clutter. IME, untidy houses are often that way because they simply contain far too much stuff. There's no place for anything to go, so it's actually impossible for it to be tidy. That leads on to it becoming dirty as you can't effectively clean it as there's so much stuff there.

I do think it effects children, especially when they get to an age where they have friends round. I think a degree of mess is normal (games/toys out), but it's when those things don't get tidied away at the end of the day when it becomes a problem.

My last house was a disaster, for various reasons I could never get on top of the housework. I've since moved and DS1 (5) is always saying how nice it is to live in a clean and tidy house. It breaks my heart, but I honestly never knew the mess bothered him.

Absolutely yes.
It causes huge amounts of stress and social isolation if they can't bring their friends home.
We lived in a muddle for a couple of years due to building work and I know it was very stressful for all of us, even though the DC were primary school age, it was still very hard having nowhere to keep their things tidy and dust free, not having a proper kitchen etc. I know it affected them because they still talk about it 20 years later.

My parents are borderline hoarders, and very chaotic. The house I grew up in had black mould, I lost several toys to it.
They now live (just the two of them) in a 4-bed townhouse, which is full to brimming with stuff. I visited recently and excavated the living room table, which hadn't been tidied since the last time I did it several years ago. I found 200-odd pens and hundreds of Euros on the table alone.
I said to mum "don't get any more pens, you have plenty" and she said "but some of them don't work, I'll just pick up a few here and there..."
I rarely had friends round as a child, we mostly went out or to their houses. I had severe asthma whoch turned out to be a reaction to the dust mites that proliferated in my childhood home.
My house is clean and moderately tidy. Things have their place and usually end up back in it within a day or so. My children have friends round a lot (they had two separate sleepovers here at the weekend!) so they must be happy with the state of the house.

I lost proper use of the dining room table a couple of easy ago. The dc's use it for craft (from the moment they wake until late bedtime) and homework. They can eat around the paper and books but it's not ideal.

The house is too small to fit even another tiny desk or table in it so I've sacrificed the dining room table to the dc's.

My house was lovely before I had dc's .

I grew up in a tidy, clean home, which is nice. However, I do remember my mum doing more cleaning than actually playing with us. I think she saw it as an indication of how well she was coping. The house had to be clean and tidy or she wasn't coping. (She suffered with depression).

I wish she had used her energy to spend time with us.

On the other hand, I remember going to friends houses that were disgusting. Absolutely filthy. It was really unpleasant and made me feel very sorry for the friend.

I think I have inherited some of my mums view that if your house isn't clean it means you aren't coping, and tend to feel quite ashamed if my house isn't clean and tidy. I can't really relax unless it is reasonably tidy and clean. I just don't want dd to remember me spending all my time cleaning when I should have been playing with her. It's hard to get the balance right.

I hate those things! It is possible to play with your kids and have a clean house. Not rocket science.

Growing up a friend had the coolest parents in my book,forever whipping her off on spontaneous beach trips, letting her stay up late etc...but the house was bordering on squalid. She never felt she could invite friends round because of it, and wished her parents were a wee bit more 'conventional' (their term, quite condescendingly used in reference to those who spent time tidying and cleaning) in their approach to houses and family life!

Our house is our haven, it wouldn't feel that way to me if it was a shit tip.

Why is the state of any house the responsibility of 'Mum'?

Keeping our house clean and tidy is a team effort (including the kids)... I'm not doing it all!

I've just been away with a group of teenage boys; of 14 of them, only 2 (mine was one) knew how to make up a bed.

I'm another who grew up in an extremely untidy and dirty house. Now as an adult I am massively OCD over the state of my house.

If they are old enough to be upset and bothered by the mess, they are old enough to tidy up.

And if the parent won't allow it what then?

Yep. My mil is lovely but her house is absolutely packed and messy.
Her two sons both avoided letting girlfriends come to meet her because they were so embarrassed :(

One thing I noticed is that nothing ever ever gets put away, so she'll start ironing and when finished not put the board, iron and 3 piles of clothes away. Then need to get a bit of paperwork from a cupboard but leave it out on the dining table. She'll take the cat to the vets but instead of putting the carrier back under stairs, she'll leave it in the hall.
Its easy to see how it gets totally over run.

I know it sounds absolutely awful to say butwhen she passes away (hopefully not for a very very long time!!) We will have an absolute nightmare trying to sort it all out :(

My df was raging tidy and I think it has effected me to ho the other way. We'd come back from a day out yo find he'd binned everything he thought untidy. He'd just shove it all on a bin back, so things were often broken if you did go to fetch then back.
I now find it very hard to throw things out, I think probably related to finding that something I loved or needed had been thrown out.

I also had a friend whose dm was very into cleaning and she was always apologising when we went round for her dm and things she required us to do. She got very embarrassed.

Mil thinks she's tidy, but I don't find her very clean, things like there are always dead flies around, which turn my stomach. Dh has a strange approach to tidying. If it's his it is where he wants it, so tidy. If it's someone else's then it doesn't bother him.