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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

to be think the head teacher is wrong (TT holiday)

209 replies

Thancred · 09/07/2015 16:34

We've booked a week long holiday for mid-September. I filled in a leave request form at school citing the reasons for the absence. DH can't get any leave until September, they have a lot of term time workers so the year round staff aren't allowed to take more than one or two days off in school holidays unless it's an emergency/sickness. In addition to this we have a DC with ASD who cannot cope with how busy everywhere is in school holidays, even day trips in school holidays are a nightmare if it's somewhere too busy or loud so he ends up miserable or melting down and we have to come home early - a week of that without the option of escaping back home would be horrid for him. So we made the decision that the only way we will get a family holiday is to go in TT when it is quieter and when DH can get the time off work.

We've had a letter back from the head this afternoon and she has rejected it outright. I rang up to discuss it and she has said she does not consider any of it to be a good enough reason. I explained about the ASD issues and her response was "that's life, if xxx can't cope with in the school holidays then don't go".

I've rang the LEA for advice and they've stated that under their guidance it would be classed as exceptional circumstances but they can't overturn the heads decision so we will probably be passed over to them for a fine to be issued.

AIBU to be annoyed at the head? Does anyone know if fines can be appealed once issued?

OP posts:
Wolfiefan · 09/07/2015 21:07

JJXM
Hoping all posters read your thread. A bit of empathy would go a long way. (I'm normally the one saying don't take holiday in term time!)

yellowcurtains · 09/07/2015 21:08

JJXM- my eldest has ASD, there are lots of places that are quiet in the UK in the holidays, provided you go outside 'resort' type towns. We have had lovely summer breaks in Devon (inland, rural area), the Lake District, Wales, and Derbyshire. We have to go to quiet places- even the supermarket that she's been going to since she was born is too much on a bad day.
We hire cottages usually, or camp at smaller, more basic sites (thankfully, we all like camping!)

maddening · 09/07/2015 21:18

i think the problem is the lack of consistency and ht making their own rules then saying their hands are tied by the system - if the lea say that this is in the remit of "acceptable reasons" for absence then the ht decides not yet say it is the dictate of the lea then that is a lie and either it has been miscommunicated to the ht or the ht is lying as they are wanting to keep the figures looking good or they can't be arsed with the work to operate the system effectively - either way that is wrong imo as they will then pass the report to the lea to fine or mean that an a family with an acceptable-in the eyes of the lea- reason for an absence will face the fine or miss out.

The whole thing is being badly managed by the schools - you should be able to submit your application to the lea who would advise acceptability and provide that to the ht or have a published set of rules so everyone knows what is and what is not allowed.

atonofwashing · 09/07/2015 21:19

OP, I hear your cry. I have never taken my DS out of term time for a holiday, but plenty of parents in our school have and whilst it annoyed me, it didn't affect my son's education and I can go on holiday during school holiday time.

Your child will be in year 2. He is still young, and family time is precious. Especially holidays where youngsters can learn just as much outdoors as indoors. You've booked the holiday, so go. It's not upturning anyone else's year 2 education. You might make yourself unpopular, but life moves on and they will forget about it over time.

can you afford the fine? Can you ask your child's ASD doctor, if you have one, for a note to say a quieter holiday time would be beneficial? That might change the sympathies of the head teacher.

for what its worth, we have lots of families at our primary school who have said they won't be in on the last day as it's Eid. I bet they had no issues with our head teacher. Only a day off, but same principal... (so I flew ds and I up north to see granny and gramps for the weekend and bunked off Monday). That's MY Eid. I sent in a letter saying what I was doing and heard nothing.

I do agree that these rules are all over the place and some schools are much more sensitive than others. I also agree with turning up each day.
BUT life doesn't always play by the rules.

Enjoy your holiday.

Heels99 · 09/07/2015 21:21

Who cares, go anyway and pay the fine. I take mine out a week every year no exceptional circumstances. It's not up to her whether you take the time off, she just can't authorise it.

NickiFury · 09/07/2015 21:23

I agree maddening the law seems to be interpreted differently from school to school and LA to LA as well. Some posters on here say that their school fines for even one session of unauthorised absence so this would £600 for a weeks holiday. Clearly this can't be true but it is repeated regularly on here. No one seems to know what exactly is the standard.

At our school it's more than 4.5 sessions AND general attendance and punctuality must be taken into account too. So it's likely that a child with otherwise good attendance and punctuality can take a term time holiday without being fined.

Kardamyli · 09/07/2015 21:26

FFS OP, assuming your children are not at fee paying school they are getting a FREE education. One of the few things you as a parent are expected to do (barring illness) is send your children to school on all the days it is open. That still must leave you with about 14 weeks of the year when you could go on holiday.

NickiFury · 09/07/2015 21:28

Have you actually read the thread?

Original poster
Thancred · 09/07/2015 21:42

Thanks kardamyli, I honestly hadn't actually considered going away in the school holidays. Oh. Wait....

Thank you to everyone else who has responded. I'm going to ring the LEA tomorrow to check what absence level will trigger a fine and going to sock some money away to cover it just in case.

I don't want to say where we're going at risk of outing myself but DS has very specific interests and there is a nature attraction near to where we're going that coincides with one of his interests. I'm so excited for him to visit it. I've spent a lot of time mourning (if that's the right phrase) the boy that should/might have been instead of properly enjoying the wonderful boy I actually have, quirks and all. I can't wait to spend a week of quality time all of us together :)

OP posts:
YeOldTrout · 09/07/2015 21:42

Are you always so rude or do you save it specially for the Internet?

pmsl.

"Family holidays" are my idea of Perfect Hell, but whatever floats your boat. Plan to pay the fine IF it is forthcoming and otherwise forget about it. Write a letter to school to remind them why your child isn't in that week so they don't send daft texts each morning. Don't appeal, not likely to win & not worth the aggro.

Kardamyli · 09/07/2015 21:45

Nikki Yes I have read the thread. Is there now a special Mumsnet rule that says you can't post on a thread unless you agree with everyone else?

Original poster
Thancred · 09/07/2015 21:45

Oh god, the texts. I've had one every day this week reminding me to return his spellings book despite me telling the teacher each morning that they have his spellings book. Still, makes a nice change from the 'bumped head' texts that I get at least once a day :o

OP posts:
NickiFury · 09/07/2015 21:48

No, no rule. You just seemed so clueless that I was hoping you couldn't possibly have read it all but unfortunately you did and still managed to be rude and ignorant towards the OP and her circumstances.

Original poster
Thancred · 09/07/2015 21:48

kardamyli, in my OP I have explained why it would not be possible for us to go away in the holidays this year. I have explained in subsequent posts that a school holidays trip might be a possibility next year depending on how DS gets on.

OP posts:
Kardamyli · 09/07/2015 21:51

nikki just because I have a different opinion to you does not make me rude or ignorant. It just means we have a difference of opinion. Life must be wearing for you if you think everyone who doesn't agree with your world view is rude and ignorant.

Kardamyli · 09/07/2015 21:54

thancred you did explain and I'm sure it is no picnic dealing with your sn child. However I don't see that as a valid reason to take your children away from their free education. As another poster said there are plenty of quiet places if you stay away from holiday resorts.

NickiFury · 09/07/2015 21:56

In my opinion saying "FFS!" and dishing out a mini lecture that did not mention or appear to take into account her personal circumstances, that she has taken the trouble to share in detail with posters does make you appear rude and ignorant and I have yet to see any other post from you that changes my mind about that.

I suppose we will just have to agree to disagree won't we Smile?

Original poster
Thancred · 09/07/2015 21:58

It wasn't what you said so much as how you said it. I am well aware that there are 14 weeks of shool holidays however I have explained my reasoning. Whether or not you agreed with it is no excuse for rudeness.

FYI, education is not 'free'. DH and I both pay taxes that go towards the costs of education, I also contribute to school funds by supporting their various events, buying raffle tickets, framed art, and so on.

OP posts:
Original poster
Thancred · 09/07/2015 22:00

And to add, there is far more to an education than sitting in a classroom day in-day out.

OP posts:
wwyd123 · 09/07/2015 22:01

I don't understand why this is a big . You can go on holiday when it suits your family you just have to pay the . Adding the cost of the fine to the cost of the holiday will still be cheaper than paying for a holiday in the school holidays.

Italiangreyhound · 09/07/2015 22:01

Sorry I can't type straight today, I said "In my child's class although she is year 10" I meant aged 10, Year 5 sorry!

Well TheTroubleWithAngels maybe I am being dramatic, for dramatic effect! Wink but if you are fining people for taking their kids out of school you are penalising them, you don't need an armed guard to enforce this law you need people to send out fines. But you are limiting people's choices. And I don't see it as right to do that. Not in this respect. But it is good to see you, as a teacher, agree it does not do kids harm to miss a small amount of school.

Anyonefortennis if it is the rules for all schools, which our taxes pay to run, and which we do not agree with and which we had no part in setting up, and which effectively only harm us, how exactly do we have a choice?

You see here is the problem I have, do head teachers have any authority, if so, what is it? Shouldof you said ...our head rejected txt holiday request for children to have holiday with dying father with weeks/possibly months to live This is utterly abhorrent and I would actually question a head teacher who understood so very little about children as to suggest that a child with a dying father should be in school at all, unless it was in that child's best interests, when they could be on a family holiday (in the context given here). The idea the family received a 'no' or were fined would have led me to think that this head lacks the common human decency... or simply does not have authority to do anything.

NickiFury · 09/07/2015 22:04

This concrete insistence that ALL children must be treated the same no matter what their needs and let's not forget that OP's child has a formal diagnosis of ASD, is the reason that so many children with SN are unable to function and flourish in main stream school environments. Clearly it may be hard to comprehend the complexities of ASD if you have little or no experience of it but there's really no excuse for disbelief, rudeness and ignorance.

Kardamyli · 09/07/2015 22:07

OP maybe post somewhere other than AIBU next time if you don't want a robust response.

Italiangreyhound · 09/07/2015 22:08

Kardamyli Re FFS OP, assuming your children are not at fee paying school they are getting a FREE education. One of the few things you as a parent are expected to do (barring illness) is send your children to school on all the days it is open. That still must leave you with about 14 weeks of the year when you could go on holiday.

I am not sure what country you are in but education in this country is not free, it is free at the point of contact but it is paid for by al of us! No one is giving the OP's kid a hand out. She, her husband, me, my husband and everyone else who is paying tax is paying for it. The big question is why should we all accept these ridiculous rules! The aim of education is to not just to push children through exams like some masive mincing machine, but to turn out citizens of our country and the world. The lack of empathy in the school system is stunning. Travel and relaxation, the arts, etc are things that enhance life, parents are not asking for weeks and weeks of holiday (who can afford that!). They want to have a family break with family at a convenient time (e.g. when the husband can actually join them). FFS!

bialystockandbloom · 09/07/2015 22:14

kardymyli "robust" is not the same things as ignorant, and happy to stay that way.