Left wing dialogue

[TrueBlueYorkshire]

As someone who has worked all over the world and is interested in politics I just wanted to see if I am only one who finds the language of the left tiring.

To give you an allusion of the type of language i mean below are two prime examples:

1. Taking the most extreme view and expressing it as if it is common.
2. Denying that people should show personal responsibility (this quite often goes hand in hand with point number 1).

I just find the language instantly de-rails any sort of constructive conversation regarding policy into a haves vs have-nots type argument which puts most people on the defensive. While people on the right are having sensible arguments with each other regarding society; in general people I talk to on the left seem to be in their own little world.

AIBU to think this sort of language is all to common from the left and it is what is isolating them?

Why is another thread on MN an 'interesting thread'? Loads of people will agree with your sentiment btw especially in this political climate where mothers and children are targets for stigma. It doesn't mean you are correct. Loads of people agree with the BNP and want to bring back hanging...

What do you think "allusion" means, OP?

The thread also talks about opening borders and adopting from overseas etc if everyone stopped having dc. Don't imagine that would go down well with extreme right.
plus as others have said greatest welfare bill is pensioners. So if everyone chose not to have dc who would pay for our pensions.

Absolutely that thread is still there - and here is what I said

What a load of disingenuous pap.

You were poking people who were upset and worrying about their immediate financial survival.

It was one of the gloatiest displays I've ever seen on MN NC.

You were poking people who were upset and worrying about their immediate financial survival.

Thought as much which is why I didn't bother to read it. And that it is just another MN thread so what's the point?!

But ya know NC is just making a 'sensible' argument and all...

I really hate that kind of twattery btw "I've chosen this, I've been successful lucky I think everyone should be like me and anyone who isn't is wrong" with no irony or self awareness and perhaps more to the point - no experience of misfortune!

But ya know NC is just making a 'sensible' argument and all...

Well maybe NCtosay needs to realise that it is nothing to do with left/right. It is more a case of walking into a room full of distressed people and saying "I have donned this mask of disguise to tell you all that your distress is your own fault for being leeches" that fully earns him/her a resounding "Fuck Off" regardless of the politics. I suspect (s)he is too dim or emotionally stunted to catch the point, though.

wasn't to you Offred, BTW, but to NC's delusions of being 'sensible'.

There isn't going to be any dialogue, is there? Nice thread title, though, OP.

Where IS the OP anyway?

Of course having a baby is personal choice and a lifestyle choice. Surprised that anyone thinks the opposite.

Of course now we will hear - it was an accident, I forgot to take my birth control, we got carried away, he told me he wanted a baby and then left etc etc etc.

Of course now we will hear - it was an accident, I forgot to take my birth control, we got carried away, he told me he wanted a baby and then left etc etc etc.

Because people who say that are what...lying?

It is astonishing, the snide self-satisfied hypocrisy of some on the right.

If you are fed up with being called a selfish goady twat, it's pretty easy - just don't post selfish goady twat statements.

Yes, of course some people will lie!

I think the OP was William Hague and just came here to stir things up a bit ('interested in politics', Yorkshire person who's travelled a lot...)

What about raped and had unexpected twins - even the Tories are not so harsh that they haven't conceived of those issues.

However that is not the point and I don't have to justify myself to you!

Have you ever considered what having children is a lifestyle choice actually means? In real life?

Having children is no more a lifestyle choice than producing food. We need young people in society to work and pay taxes. If people don't have children we will have to have more immigration. Things use resources and provide resources a successful society is one that produces uses and produces efficiently. At the moment we are not doing that. We have hideous inequality and an unsustainable level of older people relative to the young. We import (and waste) most of our food. Housing is allocated based on wealth. Work does not pay well enough to support a small family for 90% of people. Education is horrendously expensive yet graduate jobs are few... Just completely imbalanced economy which is the problem, not that there isn't enough money in the pot.

right so you punish the child because you think the parents are feckless liars

nice :)

No I think she means women should think before they get raped/their contraception fails/they release two eggs etc

And if they don't well the child is a child of the feckless and therefore dehumanised.

So that is your assumption? That people whose lives are not exactly the same as yours, are liars? By simple default of not living in the Hillingdon-approved manner?

What a deeply unpleasant way to live.

see this is the issue I have with right wing dialogue

all the sound bites and daily fail pleasing headline grabbing speeches sound sooooo reasonable - until you realise there are REAL people involved and real children

and if you work with children and families and you understand that families vary massively and some are less able to parent and cope and budget and manage and cook and organise than others and that these families need HELP not punitive measures - then that dialogue does start to look cruel

A lot of it sounds totally whacko to me tbh and not reasonable like the plan to pay to repeatedly deport unemployed immigrants rather than give them a couple of weeks' dole.

And all the stuff about benefits tourism. It's really tough to get any benefits even as an EU migrant and has been for years... Or 'there's no money in the pot'

People just jump on newspaper bandwagons... Never sure why they don't bother to actually think first.

I haven't noticed a great deal of thinking at all, to be honest. I'm still hopeful, though.