Left wing dialogue

[TrueBlueYorkshire]

As someone who has worked all over the world and is interested in politics I just wanted to see if I am only one who finds the language of the left tiring.

To give you an allusion of the type of language i mean below are two prime examples:

1. Taking the most extreme view and expressing it as if it is common.
2. Denying that people should show personal responsibility (this quite often goes hand in hand with point number 1).

I just find the language instantly de-rails any sort of constructive conversation regarding policy into a haves vs have-nots type argument which puts most people on the defensive. While people on the right are having sensible arguments with each other regarding society; in general people I talk to on the left seem to be in their own little world.

AIBU to think this sort of language is all to common from the left and it is what is isolating them?

Oh, do bore off NC. You namechanged specifically to post a load of goady, tedious crap yesterday. That's why you got short shrift

Yes you were very goady NCtobeGoady.

Is everything ok?

I hate the attitude of "I'm left wing so I'm better educated than you"

Of course, Donna.
Whyever didn't I think of that?

And, of course, it's nothing to do with generational advantages at all. It's all to do with hard work and ambition. BTW, does anyone know what happened with inheritance tax? [disingenuous]

What "extreme views" ? Ta.

I agree, very silly attitude. Surely it's the other way around, ada?

'I'm better educated than you, so I'm left wing'?

Can't believe op is being called goady.

I once had the 'better educated thing' sprung on me during a date, in sort of reverse. The date in question told me that because she was going to be a lawyer, and I was going on to do postgraduate work, it was inevitable that I was left-wing because I would never earn the same amount of money as her. I thought this was a)a brilliant springing of the trap in reverse and b) surprisingly Marxist in its use of economic realities to account for ideological superstructure, for a Tory.

I hate the attitude of "I'm left wing so I'm better educated than you"

What!? Where!?

I want NCtobeGoady as a nickname is it taken?

Race ya!

If you say so.

I'm fairly central with my views. Some things I go right some things I go left. However the left are usually more argumentative and like to shout the right down with attitudes of being better educated because how can anyone educated vote right wing.

It's an attitude that came over during the election and has come over since then too not just on here

Political tribalism is so entrenched in the UK that it is often impossible to have a sensible discussion with someone who holds a different political opinion.

The left believe they occupy the higher moral ground, are more altruistic, and that people on the right are callous, inhuman, cruel, etc.

The right believe they know best - more paternalistic than altruistic - and that lefties are dim, naive, profligate, etc.

The truth, as ever, will be somewhere in the middle and will have rather more nuanced aspects of both of these extreme positions.

1 and 2 are pretty accurate observations actually. I would make further observations that extreme, unchecked, right wing thinking has resulted in some of the most repressive, murderous regimes in recent history (USSR under the KGB, East Germany under the Stasi, most of Eastern Europe).

I've also noticed that it tends to go along with relatively low achieving men who think the world owes them a living - those who have been to university, not done all that well in their careers and feel hard done by as a result. Instead of competing, they are in favour of restricting competition, by creating a "more level playing field" or a "fairer and more just society" (which would presumably involve those currently working hard working just as hard or harder but paying more tax - but hey, they're supposed to thank the luck gods every day that they can work). Blah blah blah. Heard it all before. How many people do they actually want to drive out of this country?

unchecked left wing thinking. Although admittedly the reverse is true too.

I think DadonIce has it nailed.

Maybe I wouldn't call people cunts if they weren't so smug and offensive.

dadonice said it better

I think I've dropped the c bomb once. Maybe twice. Don't like it.

My personal views come from living in a very difficult place. To be told that my RL experience is ridiculous because of someone's political views hurts. There are reasons I say what I do, my family would go under if it wasn't for the support we get and I know how hellish it's been to get that support. So knowing how hard it is makes me realise that yes there may be 0.7% fraud (that's 0.7p in the £1) but I'd rather that than see the people I know in the disabled community struggle and possibly become dangerously ill or die.

That's not ideology, it's not politics, it's my reality.

Interesting discussion OP.

I believe that those on the Left (and I used to be one) have a tendency to naive idealism. There is an impulse to place ideals and institutions above people and reality and to be guided instinctively by what feels "virtuous".

Hence the worship of the NHS, for instance, which is simply one method of delivering healthcare and not necessarily the best one. Or the similar faith-like support for endless immigration despite the observable reality of it being an unmitigated disaster. These positions are irrational but the virtuous feelings derived from holding them is too difficult to resist.

On top of this, because they base their opinions in idealism and feeling virtuous, they fervently believe that those who oppose them are "evil". Rather than acknowledging that Right and Left merely disagree on the best methods for dealing with healthcare, or immigration, or poverty, they decide that people on the Right "don't care about sick people" or are "racist" or "hate the poor".

This sort of language really is a hallmark of left wing discussion, you would rarely, if ever, see the same sorts of emotive phrases used by the Right against the Left. The Left have found that angry moral condemnation of a particular point of view is a sure way to win an argument as it intimidates opposition and shuts down debate.

Scatter - what a good post!

Because referring to people on benefits as 'freeloaders' (as happened yesterday) really paints someone in a good light.

If someone is behaving gleefully at the thought of families losing income and the slashing of disability benefits then I absolutely, 100% believe they are a cunt, regardless of their political leanings.

Whisk exactly