Left wing dialogue

[TrueBlueYorkshire]

As someone who has worked all over the world and is interested in politics I just wanted to see if I am only one who finds the language of the left tiring.

To give you an allusion of the type of language i mean below are two prime examples:

1. Taking the most extreme view and expressing it as if it is common.
   
2. Denying that people should show personal responsibility (this quite often goes hand in hand with point number 1).
   

I just find the language instantly de-rails any sort of constructive conversation regarding policy into a haves vs have-nots type argument which puts most people on the defensive. While people on the right are having sensible arguments with each other regarding society; in general people I talk to on the left seem to be in their own little world.

AIBU to think this sort of language is all to common from the left and it is what is isolating them?

[ElectraCute]

the observable reality of it being an unmitigated disaster

...except that that's an opinion. And not supported by the facts: ie that the majority of immigrants are net contributors to the economy.

Y'see? This is how it happens.

[DoraGora]

Well, OP, Karl Marx was fairly left wing, and he didn't say any of that, unless your having means ownership of the means of production. So, maybe you're tired because you've been spending all your time studying the wrong language. I think what you've been studying is the language of people who don't like the Tories. You don't need to be particularly left wing to hate them. Just not being an arsehole is fine.

[Bubblesinthesummer]

There are 'extreme views' on the left and right. However tbh I've not seen either on here all I've seen is name calling etc.

[TheChandler]

DoraGora

Where did the assumption that the OP is studying come from?

Maybe you should learn to pay more attention to detail.

As for this strange stuff that left wingers are somehow better educated - I can't say its something I have ever come across in practice. Is it a mumsnet thing? Don't they know how easy it is to get into Oxbridge as a postgrad?

Likewise, the myth that some mumsnetters like to put out that any billionaire they've ever met is a left wing Labour voter.

[GeorgeYeatsAutomaticWriter]

TheChandler

I think DoraGora means 'studying' as in analysing.

Maybe you should learn to broaden your vocabulary

[DoraGora]

Pardon me, chandler. I assumed, I'm sorry to say, that the points put forward in the OP were to be used as evidence. I'm very sorry, and won't assume, from now on, that any particular argument is being proposed.

OP, what, in fact, are you doing?

[TheChandler]

Yes, I think you are right GeorgeYates. There was me confuddling it with the generally accepted definition of student, as being one matriculated at an establishment of academic learning, doing a nationally recognised course of some sort.

Not with using google. I see now where this better educated nonsense arises:

"How dare you tell me about anatomy when you are a mere doctor, I've been studying it on Wikipeadia all morning".

etc..

[TheChandler]

Dora that the points put forward in the OP were to be used as evidence

Which rules of evidence is it that you think govern the discussion sparked by the OP?

The best evidence rule?

The real evidence rule?

Why do you feel the need to use words like "arsehole" to strengthen whatever your argument is supposed to be?

[GeorgeYeatsAutomaticWriter]

Haven't used google at all. I'm just aware that there is more than one definition of 'studying' (not, note, 'student' - good sleight of hand there). Oh and you spelled my name wrong - do pay more attention

[SeenSheen]

I expect your thread will be deleted so as not to upset too many regulars

[TheChandler]

I'm just aware that there is more than one definition of 'studying'

I'm going to try that next time I pay for the gym. "student discount" please?

I doubt it will succeed.

Its just that it came across to me as if DoraGora was trying to belittle the OP by making references to her studying, the inference being that she was only a student, and one who had become confused over language moreover, while she herself had vastly more experience. Cut in a few references to "evidence", which she doesn't really understand and there you have it. An unsuccessful attempt at a put down, but a successful interruption to what could have been an otherwise interesting discussion.

Would anyone care to give me some evidence for the better-educated left wing thing, as so far it seems to point to the opposite.

[GeorgeYeatsAutomaticWriter]

Again, you're confusing 'studying' with 'student'. It's really not that difficult.

[ElectraCute]

Would anyone care to give me some evidence for the better-educated left wing thing, as so far it seems to point to the opposite

Er, no. Because absolutely no one actually thinks that, so there is none. My post was a joke response to Ada's entirely unsubstantiated remark.

[ouryve]

Why is it that right wing people proclaiming to be from Yorkshire have a tendency to start a goady thread then bugger off back to t'pub as soon as they've lit the blue touch paper?

(Just thought I'd join the OP in some sweeping generalisations)

[ElectraCute]

T'pub? Don't be silly, ourye - all those True Blues don't have time for the pub. They're too busy pulling themselves up by t'bootstraps and getting on t'bike and being right t'hardworking.

[ElectraCute]

ouryve, sorry.

[TheChandler]

I'm really not confused over nouns and adjectives Georgie. Its obvious that Dora used it as way of belittling the OP's knowledge as being incomplete. I'm just sick and tired of hearing the left wing, cultist mantra of intolerance being used to stifle discussion.

Considering I've just been labelled as communist on another thread (not even socialist!), I don't probably fit into the neat little cunty box you've already assigned to me. But if the left wingers or whatever you are today must put their pieces, is there any chance you could deviate from the usual script and say something interesting (and there are some interesting posts on this thread?) rather than the usual diatribe of low level abuse?

[GeorgeYeatsAutomaticWriter]

Gosh. That's a lot of rage you've got there. Some might say it constitutes 'low level abuse'. As does patronisingly telling someone to 'pay more attention'.

I frankly don't care what your political opinions might or might not be. Your posts are unpleasant.

[TheChandler]

George groan. Not the "you're angry" response! Oh please, anything but that...

Next it'll be "you're nasty".

Oh wait...

[GeorgeYeatsAutomaticWriter]

Nah it's ok - you've already covered that one by whingeing about 'low level abuse'.

[DoraGora]

There isn't any need for a student to attend a college. The OP has remarked upon his or her findings. If we are to follow David Hume, then it would suggest that the type of evidence in this case is that concerning the OP's observations.

[OTheHugeManatee]

If I were answering the OP seriously, I might say that there is an inherent idealism to some strands of left-wing thought - a belief that humans can be legislated or educated out of venality, viciousness or other moral failings - that encourages adherents to take the high moral ground. This in turn can come across as self-righteous. In contrast there are some strands of right-wing thought that start from the position that human nature includes a certain amount of moral squalor and the trick is to come up with arrangements in public and political life that take that into account while still aiming for the good life. It's not as reductive as this though, as social conservatives tend to get lumped in with the pragmatic type of right-winger and nothing can be quite as self-righteous and pompous as a social conservative on a mission.

I probably shouldn't bother answering seriously though, as I'm not sure it was written to elicit anything other than a bunfight and even if it was, on the whole so far it's not managing to do so.

[TheChandler]

Dora There isn't any need for a student to attend a college

Indeed...there isn't any need to bring students into this at all!

I think even Hume would have suggested that if barrack room lawyers must get in a muddle, they still give priority to legislation, which has developed the law of evidence since his death in the 1700s. I think Hume would be pretty horrified by what you are apparently suggesting.

what on earth did Hume do to deserve being dragged into this

[DoraGora]

I think you're talking about courtroom evidence, which is not the subject to which I'm referring. Although, observations are also used as courtroom evidence.