lets try again with the anti islamophobia, shall we!

[karbonfootprint]

Well, I did start a thread about this recently, but it is full of discussion about terrorists, and events in other countries......

Just talking about this country, the UK, and Muslim and non Muslim British people, lets just look after each other, and stand up for each other against intolerance and racism, and be friends!

Not exactly Gemauve but I do think we have immigrants coming from countries with vastly different values to our own and they have not been expected to assimilate or integrate. If you come and live in this country and appreciate the freedoms, rights,and opportunities you get then show your appreciation. Moreover while I don't want people to abandon their culture and traditions, if some of those practices are completely the opposite to this country, either adapt or consider living somewhere with more similar values.
To illustrate (and explain why I'm quite grumpy today), I was at the park today and I saw a clearly Muslim family with a daughter the same age as mine (6) and she was veiled. 6!! That is indefensible. I don't want to see that in this country. If you are an adult and make that choice, fine but that choice should not be made for a child. Before anyone argues, according to Islam a girl should only wear the veil when she has reached puberty so that has bugger all to do with religious freedom.

Ambar - But Islam is a religion of peace! I am sure most Muslims would gladly embrace diversity and would be delighted to hear about the other lovely religions. The real threat to world peace are the atheists. Trying to impose non-religion on us, forcing us to read richard dawkins and the theory of evolution.

Wordkill the Muslim children at our state school go along to churches, Sikh and Hindu temples and the mosque and celebrate Christmas, Eid, Diwali and Chinese new year as part of their religious education.

I don't think any parents have objected to that.

wordkill most Muslims would be delighted to hear about other religions. Really? Tbh my dcs are the only Muslim kids at primary not withdrawn from RE lessons or collective worship. I also taught at a British international school in the middle east and we had a regular problem with Muslim parents and religious education and occasions. I had really little sympathy because they had chosen the British school because it was 'the best'.

Tbh my dcs are the only Muslim kids at primary not withdrawn from RE lessons or collective worship.

Working on the assumption that the Guardian will usually put the best spin on such matters,

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/oct/14/trojan-horse-schools-done-little-fix-problems-ofsted

The inspectors found that Oldknow’s trustees were not aware of a visit to Saudi Arabia for pupils and staff, “despite a similar trip last year receiving criticism from inspectors at the previous inspection due to failures in safeguarding. Indeed, they had been told by senior leaders that the visit had been cancelled.”

The inspectors also reported that more than 100 families had requested that their children be withdrawn from collective Christian worship at Oldknow. The schools pupils are overwhelmingly Muslim.

At Saltley, inspectors said: “Some staff segregate themselves into groups based on their religious beliefs and this has not been addressed with sufficient urgency by leaders.” At Park View: “Little has been done to discourage segregation, to encourage boys and girls to sit together in lessons”.

I'm glad you mentioned the trojan horse schools, Gemauve ... I was thinking earlier (am trying to find the link) of the school where governors were to be replaced after dragging the school into unacceptable practices, and parents tried to prevent the new governors being admitted We even had a similar case in my own city, where throngs of parents claimed racism, islamophobia and all the rest because of the utterly damning report the school received

This is precisely the sort of thing I mean - if we accept (and I still believe the majority do) that most muslim communities have little patience with extremism, why were so many parents opposed to the extremists being rooted out??

Actually, at the International school I taught at, one year we had a real shit storm when Christmas fell during Ramadan and the Muslim parents complained about having a Christmas party. This was at a school established to serve the British expat community which local parents had chosen to join. Of course the head stood firm but we were amazed at the cheek.

and parents tried to prevent the new governors being admitted

www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/al-hijrah-school-refuses-admit-council-7205332

Thanks, Gemauve - that was the one

All I can think is why?? After all this wasn't some attack by an EDL-inspired mob of headbangers, but a responsibly sourced report into obvious and very clear problems ... so again, why??

I don't want to believe - I honestly don't - that there's actually a far bigger problem around sympathy for extremism than we've yet realised, but I have to say threads like this are shaking my faith pretty badly

This one (which didn't get as much national publicity) is going to depress you more,

www.theguardian.com/education/2014/oct/03/birmingham-police-trojan-horse-welford-primary-school-parents-headteacher

www.theguardian.com/education/2014/nov/11/primary-school-headteacher-attacked-fighting-homophobia

Guardian chosen because it avoids accusations of "Teh Mailz" and because if more people read it my subscription might get cheaper.

Dear god ... yet again, just why???!!!!

Serious question. If you are a practising religious Muslim, believe in the tenets of the Koran and Hadiths and believe they are the literal word of Allah to be followed without question but at the same time you consider yourself to be tolerant and liberal, how do you teach your children, for example, about homosexuality, from a completely un-religious, objective perspective?

wordkill presumably if you believe the literal interpretation of the Koran and the hadiths, then you don't teach your kids to be tolerant, the same way Christian religious fundamentalists are misogynists and homophobes.

Exactly, Hermione. And I'm glad ambar has fucked off with their wikipedia Hadith quotes. Although he or she just demonstrated how the hadiths and Koran can be selectively quoted and interpreted to serve a certain purpose.

Very true Hermione.

And yes, I do think that there is an undeniable but quite specific issue with Pakistani men in places like Rotherham.

Ambar - we have covered the paedophilia earlier on in the thread. Richard II married a 6 year old. Both unacceptable now but should be looked at in context don't you think? Society was very different 1400 odd years ago.

As for Buddhists being peaceful, well have you been living under a rock? ? Go Google Buddhists treatment of the rohingyas. You are coming across as beyond ignorant. What a nasty thread.

A quick question re the trojan horse, wasn't the whole thing part of some elaborate hoax? I don't remember the details but wasn't there some issue relating to truths therein? Also didn't they find many orthodox Jewish schools had the same sorts of issues as the Islamic ones?

I will Google myself when I get a minute. Personally I don't agree with faith schools at all.

A quick question re the trojan horse, wasn't the whole thing part of some elaborate hoax?

The letter itself was. The issues weren't.

None of the schools I've referred to were directly involved.

CleanMachine the context of the times agree, however Richard the second is not put on the same pedistal as Mohammed.

The Myanmar conflict is a horrible one but its the Buddhist extremists that are doing the killing/terrorism.
The Dalai Lama has demanded they stop.

Lush how can that post be interpreted in a different way all it said was Mohammed married a 6 year old.

Religion of peace is rubbish, Mohammed killed a whole town apart from one 6 year old, who he married.

Their is in my opinion no religion of peace, even Buddhism has been violent/done terrorism.

CleanMachine the Myanmar conflict does not get the media attention it deserves.

But the question I wonder and Islam needs to ask itself is why it has been in conflict with every single faith.

Richard II married a 6 year old.

I must have missed out on the Richard II cult of people who now worship him as a prophet.

I've seen many productions of the play, and even the combined charms of Jeremy Irons, Eddie Redmayne and David Tennant haven't convinced me to start worshipping him.

I'm sorry but this thread is so idealistic it's unreal.

Bloody hell, literally;

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/04/islamism-prevails-we-suppress-free-speech-bangladeshi-blogger

I see a link to the left wing mail.