AIBU to think people should say what they fucking mean?

[LashesandLipstick]

Inspired by threads in which I was told asking a question is rude because "people feel awkward saying no" and "if the person wants to, offer to do it yourself and if they want to they'll tell you not to and offer instead"

AIBU to think people shouldn't play these stupid games? Just say what you mean for Christs sake. I'm sure an adult can take you politely saying no to a request. All this does is cause confusion and create weird social norms that make no sense and confuse the hell out of people who aren't neurotypical or who are foreign.

Stop it.

Why can't people stop seeing a "no" as rude or taking it personally?

You, as I recall, said that you would regard someone saying "no" to dealing with your food issues as "unfair". You might even have said "fucking unfair".

So to be clear, if you demanded plain food, or whatever it is that you demand, and someone said simply "no", you wouldn't take it personally and you wouldn't see it as rude? That's good to know.

Gemauve I might think "bit harsh" but j wouldn't be offended or take it personally, no.

It is a very British thing - some countries are much more direct in their approach to communication and I must admit that I found living in one such country very refreshing. As it is, people want to appear accommodating and helpful, and want to avoid the uncomfortable task of turning down a request. In turn, its might be considered impolite to put someone in such a position given their reluctance to do so, and might even be seen as taking advantage of the probable reluctance to say no, ie. 'putting someone on the spot'. British politeness strategy in action!

Agree with gemauve. I asked same question above and you haven't answered.

Lashes - if it's not just me then I really think you just need to accept it. Asking people to do something extra for you is - to many people - rude and puts them in an awkward position. You can argue about whether this should be the case as much as you like, but the fact is that for many people it is.

So now you have a choice..... either accept that and not ask people to go out of their way for you or accept that if you do ask they may feel obligated and resentful. What you can't do is ask and expect them not to feel put upon - because you have been warned!

Andyour, my DP who's mixed ethnicity also says it's a British thing and that other countries are much more open than this one

Xpost. You just answered but in the other thread you said it would be unfair.

Inthink you need to be a bit more reflective about your own questions to people rather than the answers others give

Anon but if you just accept things without questioning it nothing changes

and I'm willing to bet you're someone who can't speak their mind in real life but has no qualms doing it from behind the keyboard

You couldn't be more wrong!! But I do it tactfully and politely and don't hurt peoples feelings (unless they need hurting).

I wouldn't have done the jobs I've done & the volunteering I've done if I couldn't be honest with people....

FWIW I agree that it can all get a bit tedious and passive aggressive... I'm sure I offended a few people on return to UK as I had got so used to being direct, saying what I meant, and expecting others to do the same!

Iknow, I haven't said you have to be nasty about it

I'm not getting in a bunfight with you anyway Lashes as it's like banging my head on a wall, so out with the "Hide Thread" button it is....

Exactly lashes. Dh isn't a huge fan of my hobbies, so I don't ask his opinion on it. I don't want him to feel he has to lie about it nor do I want to listen to him tell me why he doesn't like it. It won't change my mind and it's not deal breaker issue. End of.

I wouldn't ask his opinion then moan he isn't keen on it.

It's about empathy. When talking to someone you consider how they may feel and reflect it. You would also hope they do the same for you.

So in the food example you would expect the person to think 'I know she has a lot to do and although there's nothing I like I can also see that one more dish could break the camels back, so ill just bring a sandwich'. It is this lack of empathy or interest in the other person that is reflected in the question 'will you cook me a plain chicken breast' (although in this case it was extra rude because they couldn't even be bothered to ask themselves).

My dh is from a 'direct' country but he is never rude

Since this is a TAAT started by the OP, it seems reasonable to quote from the other thread, a posting by the OP.

Now it's:

I might think "bit harsh" but j wouldn't be offended or take it personally, no.

Then it was:

If the OP says no I would think that's unfair

And of course, people shouldn't say no anyway:

I think it's a bit silly because something plain is easy. Yes there's lots of dishes but surely you can prepare the plain dish earlier?

OP YANBU.

But people have been conditioned to believe that they should be polite at all times (at least, assuming they've been well brought up). They've also been conditioned to believe that a good host should do all possible to make their guests feel welcome and comfortable.

So, in the case of the meal thread, the person making the request knows that the hostess will feel uncomfortable about refusing the request even though the very last thing she wants to do is cook another dish on top of the multitude she's already making. That's why it's an unreasonable request.

I appreciate that all of this might be difficult to understand if you're not fluent in social conventions and can't follow these nuances.

It's like the jokes that do the rounds on FB about watching out if your wife/partner tells you that she's fine through gritted teeth i.e. clearly she is not fine.

It's probably a cultural thing too. In other cultures people are more direct and so seem very rude to us. We probably seem very vague or evasive to them. For example, an American friend was telling me that Americans are much more open about money and how much they earn or how much their house is worth etc. After unwittingly offending a lot of Irish people, she has learnt not to ask about their personal finances .

Anon but if you just accept things without questioning it nothing changes

But what you're expecting is for everyone else to change to accommodate you. How is that reasonable? And to be honest that's what's at the crux of this argument.

With reference to the eating someone else's cooking - you would expect it to be OK to ask a host to go out of their way to put in a whole load of extra effort to make you something different and have admitted that if they said no you would judge them as "a bit harsh". Do you not get that THAT is exactly why they would feel under-pressure to agree to something that they don't want to agree to, because they would be judged as "a bit harsh" if they didn't and that would have the ability to sour the occasion.

For example, an American friend was telling me that Americans are much more open about money and how much they earn or how much their house is worth etc

On the other hand, if an American you meet on holiday says you must visit if you are in town, they are being phatic. I suspect the OP doesn't do "phatic".

Reading the article on askers and guessers, this makes sense and explains a lot. Not sure who posted it but thanks

Is the sahm /wohm thread referred to earlier still around? I must have missed it. Is it in aibu?

My 2 best friends are not from the UK maybe that's the difference.

We all say no and like to be honest without being offensive. Which is actually possible.

Romanoff conpketely agree glad it's not just me

Gemauve in that situation I don't think it would be difficult for the person to accommodate the request but if they said no I still wouldn't be personally offended.

Now can we stick to the thread? If you're so deeply invested in that other one, go post there.

OMG a hundred times what anon said.
You have repeatedly said people should say what they think but you yoirself said it would be 'harsh' 'unfair' etx. That's EXACTLY why people aren't honest because they are afraid of your very response.

How can you not see that?!

Have you even read anon's post?