Picky guest. Rude and ill-mannered or within his rights?

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Gah. I am throwing a themed dinner party for friends from a particular interest. (A bit like a medieval feast for people from a 12th Century interest group.) The menu is complicated and of the 'Take one plucked flamingo' school of recipes. It's a massive deal and will require military-like organisation to pull off but I'm looking forward to it.

It's at my house but I have a co-host. The partner of the co-host will not eat anything on the menu. There are four options for starter, five for main course, four for pudding. My co-host tells me he eat won't eat any of them.

He's not vegetarian or allergic, he just doesn't like vegetables or anything 'complicated'. I've been asked to serve a plain chicken breast. The menu includes a roast chicken salad (offensive because of watercress) and a plain couscous.

I think it's rude. AIBU?

Maid, if the guest has ASD and there's a chance he does, he might not interpret it as a demand. I don't interpret it as one, most ASD people don't AFAIK

And you say that it would be weird to refuse to pass the salt without good reason (by your standard of 'good', presumably?). So when you ask someone 'Can you pass the salt?', you acknowledge that it isn't a genuine question, rather a politely-worded demand that requires special dispensation to refuse.

Monstrous, I agree. I'd never make a fuss about other people's food or even talk about me not eating the same.

How does the OP know this guy is NT? That's what myself and others are saying

I know. She doesn't know. I'm just taking it at face value and also going on what she said ages ago about him rejecting her macaroni cheese after requesting it.

I'd have thought macaroni cheese is a problem for some people with sensory issues because it's slimy. But then I suppose if your trigger wasn't sliminess but something else, you'd be okay with it.

There have been some intolerant comments on this thread and on at least one other started in response. I'm not commenting on them apart from to say they are ignorant. Those views pop up every time there's a thread about fussy eaters and if I comment, I weigh in on the side of the 'fussy' eaters, because usually it doesn't affect others.

But I think this is going to.

Whereas a genuine question, could possibly be:

"I am awfully sorry but I have a food intolerance/allergies / am a fussy eater, is there any chance some plain chicken could be on the menu?"
Followed by "Dont worry if it is not, I am happy to bring my own as a back up and then see if there is anything I can eat"

This would show a person with awareness, happy to provide his/her own, in order to be able to partake in the event and enjoy the company, regardless of the food.

• On this particular occasion where the host is already going to great length cooking many very special dishes.

Like I have said, I am always happy to cater for various issues myself, but I cannot see how it can be possible in the context of OPs dinner party.

Exactly maid... It is an example of an indirect speech act. The person asking 'Can you pass the salt?' would probably not expect someone to respond, 'Yes I can' and carry on without taking action.

'but it's such a simple change, letting someone bring their own or cooking an extra meal if you can.'

Actually, IS that a simple change? It really doesn't feel like it tbh. It feels as though I'm subverting the table and atmosphere and adding to my list of things to do.

I notice you haven't said you'd offer to bring something you could eat in the theme. I would have been happy to accommodate many intolerance/vegan requests because I could have managed in theme. This is basically 'No theme for me'.

And it is like a slight on your cooking, saying "none of what you make is good for me, you might as well not bother, just get me a plain chicken-breast, that'l do!"

As I have clarified, repeatedly, not catering to this guy is not the thing I was commenting on quint. Your dismissal of fussiness on the basis that it wouldn't have happened in the 12th century is the thing I have a problem with. Those of us with conditions like autism hear comments like that all the time and it's rude and dismissive. Not taken out of context. I have never said this man should be catered for. Ever. So if someone is taking comments out of context and twisting them to fit their agenda it's you.

he might not interpret it as a demand. I don't interpret it as one, most ASD people don't AFAIK

But ASD people are capable of learning aren't they, Lashes? Or at least faking it and getting it 'right' in a NT world some of the time?

Or are you saying it's not possible? If not, perhaps you can explain.

Please forgive any faux pas I've made. I'm just trying to understand.

Add but if nothing in the theme fits him? Why does that offend you?

Quint I don't think it's a slight on the cooking - I dislike most food, nothing to do with the person!

Mamam in a home setting I don't think that you do have to say yes. It would be totally fine, whether he's asd, spd or fussy git, to respond with "I'm sorry I've simply got too many other things to cook. You're welcome to bring a sandwich or something but I can't cook another dish"

Limit its different for each person. Some can, some can't. Some don't want to, some (like me) get a bit annoyed with people who are NT expecting us to change ourselves every bloody time, some desperately want to appear NT. even if they CAN, it's exhausting and difficult and draining

Statistically I agree

lol at people with ASD learning the rules...

Sure they will learn SOME rules. But the reason why some many people with AS/ASD appear to be rude is because they can NOT learn ALL the rules. Nor can they APLLY them reliably in the same way that NTs can.

Maman is right about applying - I can learn "asking is rude" but I don't know WHY, I don't understand WHY, and so I can't apply it.

One of things is that social rules is something that is learn wo being taught if that makes sense. People don't normally know they are learning these rules.

I would actually challenge you to teach anyone about all the social rules that we use everyday. As a foreigner, some of the rules here are different and tbh, even after nearly 20 years, I'm still discovering some and I know some pass me by completely. And I have NO issue linked with AS which will impair some cognitive process/ ability to read faces, taking things literally etc etc.

That's why it's so hard for people with AS to 'learn' and why expecting them 'pass as NT' isn't realistic (and if/when they do, it required such an effort huge effort!)

Feeling very sympathetic towards the OP!

That's it, we can't learn them all because social rules depend on situations and there are so many nuances that we're constantly struggling to understand what's appropriate.

it's exhausting and difficult and draining

I'm sure it is. It's similarly so dealing with people who I suspect don't have any sensory problems and use people who do as a human shield.

Perhaps you can understand. After all, I'm making the effort.

As I asked, is it not possible for some people with ASD to learn the rules even if they don't understand them? I believe you understood the 'can you pass the salt?' question.

FWIW I often do wade in on the side of so called 'fussy' eaters when such threads crop up regularly on MN.

Usually I ask how it affects the smug posters who boast about their children devouring mussels and slimy white asparagus that some other children will eat only chicken nuggets, chips and beans and then so long as there is strict apartheid on the plate.

But this man sounds like a difficult git.

Lashes, if you get excluded from stuff a lot, it's not because you have food issues. It's because you appear to be incapable of understanding that not every social event revolves around you and your needs.

I am in favour of telling people that they can't come to something this time, rather than wrecking the enjoyment of all the other guests or inconveniencing the hosts. If you are NT with no issues whatsoever except that you are not particularly keen on, say, horseracing, that doesn't mean your friends are excluding you by going to Ascot one day. It means that they want to do something they enjoy, so you can see them another time. It's fine to exclude people occasionally. Otherwise everyone's lives become incredibly restricted, and that isn't fair either.

Lashes, I am vegetarian. If I invited my friends to a special Vegetarian Dinner night and one of them said 'I won't eat anything you're cooking, can you do me a steak?', would you think that an acceptable request (ignoring potential ethical conflicts about vegetarians and cooking meat).

I'm trying to get a handle on the thresholds you have. Nosy

Solid thanks but I don't get excluded a lot, because I don't hang around with people who are narrow minded and can't take people being honest.

How would letting this man being his own food ruin everyone's day?!

Maid it's an acceptable request ignoring ethical stuff, but it's perfectly acceptable for you to say "no I'm too busy just bring your own food"

Unacceptable to say no AND no to bringing stuff IMO

lol at people with ASD learning the rules...

I don't know why you're lolling Maman. I'm not saying an ASD person has to learn the rules, or even that the rules make sense. I've already said that I am direct and that can cause problems. I don't think I'm ASD I just sometimes think that I should move to Tel Aviv or Johannesburg.

I'm asking whether it's possible for some ASD people in some circumstances to go along with rules that appear to make no sense. From what I've read on other threads on here from people with ASD or close to those who have it, it is possible.

Lashes said this:

Some can, some can't. Some don't want to, some (like me) get a bit annoyed with people who are NT expecting us to change ourselves every bloody time.

So she understands some of the rules but chooses not to follow them some or all of the time.

That's okay. I can understand lashes' frustration and bloody-mindedness. Sorry for taking your name in vain lashes.

I'm frequently frustrated and by people's behaviour and sometimes behave in a bloody-minded manner towards it.

But that's not the same as saying I don't understand it.

Or am I being too literal?