Picky guest. Rude and ill-mannered or within his rights?

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Gah. I am throwing a themed dinner party for friends from a particular interest. (A bit like a medieval feast for people from a 12th Century interest group.) The menu is complicated and of the 'Take one plucked flamingo' school of recipes. It's a massive deal and will require military-like organisation to pull off but I'm looking forward to it.

It's at my house but I have a co-host. The partner of the co-host will not eat anything on the menu. There are four options for starter, five for main course, four for pudding. My co-host tells me he eat won't eat any of them.

He's not vegetarian or allergic, he just doesn't like vegetables or anything 'complicated'. I've been asked to serve a plain chicken breast. The menu includes a roast chicken salad (offensive because of watercress) and a plain couscous.

I think it's rude. AIBU?

Only I'd be more upset if a friend DIDNT feel they could ask me to make something suitable/tell me they couldn't eat my menu and instead either missed the meal or sat there hating it because they were scared of offending me.

I am quite happy to let dh have his hobbies, he his much fitter than me. I cant always ask him to do gentler walks for me, he would end up feeling really unfulfilled and resentful. Most of the time we do things together, but now and then he make arrangements with mates to do something really exhilarating that I cant take part in.

Should I really muscle in and say "sorry, can you change your plans so as not to exclude me", or should I use the day to make my own arrangements with my friends do something else that I enjoy?

My sister is disabled. She is happy to wave me off to more challenging mountains than she can handle. She knows, and I know, that I am going on many trips with her, carrying her drinks and snack, spare clothing in my backpack, so that she can get out into nature.

My dad is in a wheelchair. On many occasions I take him out for a drive into the country instead of hiking, so he can enjoy the scenery, too. How would I feel if he asked me to always ensure I could include him? Then I would never manage to do any hikes, and neither would my sister.

So, why is it not ok for people to arrange social events which are tailored to their particular interest? I gather not ALL social events ever arranged are so exclusive?

Only, that is your issue then ... your reluctance to ask doesn't mean no one else should.

Oh don't be so silly, Lashes. It's not 'reluctance', shyness or an 'issue'; it's because it's RUDE and ungrateful to respond to a dinner invitation with anything along the lines of 'I'll come if you make me something plain.'

Maid but it's such a simple change, letting someone bring their own or cooking an extra meal if you can. If he was asking to change the whole thing then I'd agree but he isn't.

Surely if it's a simple change we should make it?

Only it's only "rude" if you choose to perceive it as such. I certainly wouldn't find it rude, neither would my friends (they're very straight up, they'd have said if they found it offensive)

If you're having a party wouldn't you rather know what your guest likes?

Lashes, I'm very glad that we seem to know different kinds of people then. I don't know anyone who would make a fuss or be ungrateful about what was being cooked for them.

I don't know anyone who 'hates' any food enough to sit there and hate a whole meal either.

I'm lucky, I think.

Quint, I can see that and I agree not all activities can be accessible. But if a small change that doesn't impact the entire event (a guy eating his own food won't) then surely it should be done?

Only, me too. I would find it very tiring and confusing to be around people who don't say it as it is. Not saying you are wrong - just different, and I'm glad we move in circles where we are on the same wavelength

'I'll come if you make me something plain.'

My friend with terrible IBS was on a very restricted diet, which was very very bland. She always accepted my dinner invitations gracefully. She also brought a back up tupperware box with food she could eat in case I got it wrong.

I would usually make a roast chicken with just herbs and olive oil, roast vegetables, and rice. Baguette and butter on the side. Berry salad for pudding, and vanilla ice cream for those who wanted some. Most of the time she could eat most of the food I cooked it.

For my friends with food allergies, I would email my menu, along with recipes, to ask if there was anything they could not eat, and if so, suggest substitutions.

This is fine to do for smaller gatherings to ensure everybody can partake in the meal. A lot harder if you cook 15 dishes!

If you're having a party wouldn't you rather know what your guest likes?

As I've said, thankfully the only food issues I have to deal with among friends are for health/ethical reasons, not fussiness for the sake of it.

But, as many people keep pointing out, if I was having, say, a steak and chips night my vegan friends would probably politely pass rather than requesting that I cook them something else on top of what I was already making. And steak and chips is a hundred times easier to make than the OP's menu; asking her for something else is beyond the bounds of acceptability and the person in question will be doing them all a favour if he just sits this one out.

Hold on. The person in the OP isn't the friend's OP. He is the partner of the person co-hosting.

To come back to that, why on earth is he asking the OP and not his partner?
And why on earth is the co-host not putting something together so that his partner feels more at ease?
I really don't see that as the OP's responsibility there. It just happens that the meal is at her house.
She is organising an activity (in that case a meal) with people who are also interested in that particular activity.
It happens that the partners of one of the people involved in that activity isn't keen on the activity.
Surely, either the partner isn't coming or the partner and the person who was invited doesn't come either and misses on that activity.
If that guy was always excluded from any social things going on, it would be unfair.
But surely he can't ask people to cater for him all the time just as you wouldn't ask people at a walking group to always have easier climbs so a partner can come?
It's not just a meal with friends. It's a specific activity that happens to be a special type of meal.

Why does he want to go if he has issues with food? . I remember watching an episode of Come Dine with me; one of the contestants had such an aversion (not allergy, just strong dislike) to cheese, that she actually went and sat in another room while the other guests were eating if the menu included cheese in any form.
And she marked the other contestants down as well, for their temerity to think of serving a perfectly normal food which she didn't happen to like.
Now there's a lady who shouldn't have been allowed within 30 miles of a cookery competition... Why would you do it if you have food issues???

But if a small change that doesn't impact the entire event (a guy eating his own food won't) then surely it should be done?

Well, not 'should', but if he says politely 'I'll bring something for myself' then yes, that'd be OK.

But NO if he demands something be made specially for him. Particularly with his history of trying something the OP's made and saying 'Nah, not my thing,' which is unspeakably ungrateful and rude.

It's a fairly obvious difference.

Maid, I find that strange

Sure.

In my opinion, using the phrase "Is there any way...." (in any context) is wheedling, pleading and perhaps bordering on manipulative. Others may disagree, but I feel that when someone starts a request with "Is there any way....", it's not usually a request because your options to get out of it are limited (because, in practical terms, there probably is "a way").

Boss: Is there any way you could get this report to me by tomorrow?
Me: (thinking) Well, yes, if I work through the night. (saying) Is there any room on that deadline?
Boss: Not really, is it doable?
Me: (thinking) So that wasn't really a request then. (saying) Yes.

Whereas my one is more open and gives them an easy way out

I think the issue is that most posters here wouldn't bring up an issue with a host that required a "way out" for them. If you recognise that you have given them a "way out", you must recognise that you have thrown them a question that might obligate them. The two concepts are completely interlinked.

If you ask yourself "Have I given them a way out"?, you should also ask yourself "Was it necessary to even ask the question?". Why give someone a way out unless you are aware that you are asking something awkward?

And,

I think you mentioned Germany? Just found some articles on rudeness and politeness in Germany and it's fascinating, particularly this one

www.expatica.com/de/insider-views/Why-Germans-are-rude_100958.html

Makes much more sense to me than the English "rules"

Only, he isn't demanding, he's asking.

Maid, I never thought of it as manipulative. I always try to give a "way out" just because some people are awkward, not because I'm trapping them

What is the difference in "can you pass the salt?" and "can you make me something plain?"

Which of them is a request, and which is a demand? Or are they both demands, just phrased more politely than:

"pass the salt" and "make me something plain"

I'd text the co-host saying you can't provide extra food and gently ask whether he's sure his partner is going to enjoy the evening and not spoil it for everyone else. It's like going to a Turkish restaurant and asking for Special K,

Quint they're both questions. People are entitled to refuse on both. Although if you refuse to pass the salt without a reason people might think that's weird.

A close friend of mine has serious food issues, he may well not be able to eat any of the op's feast. But what he has done when I cook is eat first and either just sit with us, or act as waiter

But you don't live in Germany lashes. Or Israel or South Africa or Holland or Hong Kong or the many other countries where people are similarly direct without intending rudeness.

Presumably you live in Britain and so does this person.

I'm going to believe the OP that he is NT and has no sensory issues. Therefore he sounds rude and difficult and I think he might spoil her party with his attitude.

FWIW my mother and SIL were picky over food and I used to be too because I learned from my mother. I've changed and eat most things, including things that many people don't, such as offal.

My mother and SIL would have tried to eat but probably pushed that food around their plates and filled up on bread. They wouldn't have said anything. They'd have been very good company and people might not have even noticed except to think that they weren't very hungry.

I'm also quite direct on occasion and can come across as rude. If I think I've done really badly I'll apologise. If not, I'll draw a veil and try to remember to be more flowery with that person in future.

I don't know much about Asperger's and autism but I believe that in many cases people with those conditions can learn the rules even if they don't understand them.

Sometimes they get it wrong. But we all need to try to understand each other, don't we?

At least, that's the impression I get from some posters here who either have the condition or whose children do.

Limited no I don't but I find it interesting that different cultures have different attitudes about rudeness.

How does the OP know this guy is NT? That's what myself and others are saying

BTW OP, your menu sounds lovely.

I'm a keen cook but you sound a lot keener than me. I couldn't cope with mucking about with a single chicken breast and plain rice on top of all that and the preparation and timings involved.

I agree with SGB I think you might be caught in the crossfire of his dysfunctional relationship with his partner.

PS I'd give the vegetable stew a go but might have to leave it. Lime makes me wheeze. But that's my problem, not yours.

Only, he isn't demanding, he's asking

they're both questions. People are entitled to refuse on both

And there, the entire debate is crystallised.

Something that is technically and literally a question (with a variety of possible answers) is, in reality, a dressed up demand.

To interpret 'Can you pass the salt?' as a genuine question is to misread the situation. You admit to understanding that.

There is no leap of comprehension required to see how 'Can you make something plain?' might literally be a genuine question but, in context, isn't.

I wouldn't ask the whole menu to be changed. I'd say "I have issues with food, is there any way you could cook something plain? If not I can't bring my own food"

See, I think this is fine. I'm not bothered by 'fussy' eaters subject to one proviso: I DON'T WANT TO HEAR ABOUT IT AT THE TABLE.

I'll cook other things if I can, I don't mind someone who sits at the table and eats little or nothing, or only one thing. Doesn't really matter.

I just cannot abide people who have to tell you in great detail why they aren't eating, and Oh God that's disgusting, yuk, how can you eat that etc etc and then to top it off lists the unfortunate symptoms that result if they do eat it. Like my SIL, for example.

I've never met anyone in the above category who had sensory processing disorder or anything like it. Only people who were self-centred or inexplicably believed having food issues somehow made them more interesting. Like my SIL, for example.