AIBU to be disappointed that the new CEO of the NCT is a man?

[ArcheryAnnie]

The new CEO of the NCT is due to start work shortly - a man, Nick Wilkie.

The NCT's mission is to support parents during pregnancy, birth and early childhood. Their line re the new CEO is that men can be parents, but my line is that it's only women who get pregnant and give birth.

There are many, many senior, suitably qualified women in the UK who could perform this role. Furthermore, from my experience with the NCT, all the events I went to, it was women who do most of the work. I'm tired of organisations where women make up the majority of the volunteers, or the workers, but where a man is the CEO. I didn't expect it of the NCT.

AIBU to feel massively disappointed that the NCT are putting a man in charge?

And as I stated upthread - I think that's a travesty that the childbirth bit has been dropped. Things change, blah blah - but is maternity care so perfect that they can feel vindicated in dropping this, and just being being a 'parenting' charity? Not according to MN threads maternity care, it isn't.

I was going with a poster's figures upthread who said 12 women, 15 men on the board - as nobody corrected it when she posted it. Or I missed a correction.

Though reading about its rebranding here, it's notable to me how it begins as "we are for parents" and then quickly it's evident that it retains its maternity, pregnancy and breastfeeding focus: www.themarketer.co.uk/archives/case-studies/case-study-nct/

She did correct it, I am pretty sure.

Otherwise I agree - change the name to National Early Parenting Trust to make it clear where the emphasis now lies, and be done with it,

Sabrinna, that was my mistake which I did correct later. I meant to say 15 trustees, 12 women and 3 men but mistyped it as 12 women and 15 men!

They haven't exactly "dropped" the childbirth element as they still run antenatal classes and offer training to be an antenatal teacher, but they certainly don't campaign on the scale they used to. They used to have a dedicated campaigns team but this was disbanded about 4 years ago.

Apologies - missed the correction.

I clicked on the page and the main banner was about male PND. I'm sure it's a terrible reality for the relatively few men who have it - as it is for the HUGE number of women who experience it (most of whom will also be expected to be providing hands-on care for a baby and/or other children while recovering, when this true for far fewer men). I'm just not sure that it needs to be highlighted by this charity. I'm sure there were others who could have taken up this cause as a worthy one.

That is very interesting, duplodon. I had a look, and the 'second banner' was Being a new dad- Caring for a newborn. Click on that banner, and the topics are Feeding. Sex. Bathtime. Paytime. Support for you.

Now I know sex is an important for relationships, and a valid topic for discussion - but is it really part of "caring for a newborn" ??

I'm now not surprised in the least that they have a male CEO.

Yes, when I did a search for news items on the NCT after seeing this thread, one of the first links was to news articles about men suffering from PND (can't they think of a better name for it?).

Among the advice being offered by the NCT was "Try to take some time for yourself by maintaining involvement in hobbies, exercise, or social activities, even an hour here or there can make a difference."

I bet there are quite a few women on the Relationships board having a hollow laugh over that one...

Yes, be sure to take time out for your hobbies while your wife is at home with the baby, weeping over her stitches and sore boobs....

A few years back "parenting" initiatives were very popular and attracting lots of lovely government funding. The funding is drying up now and smaller parenting charities are dying on their feet. I wonder if the NCTs focus will change to reflect whatever the new trendy initiatives now. It does feel increasingly that the NCT exists to grow as a brand/business, rather than as an educational, campaigning charity.

The thing is, clinically there's no such thing as PND - for men or women. It isn't a diagnostic category. It's 'just' major depression so of course a man can get it at a time of major life transition. Yet treatment for PND in WOMEN is supposed to be prioritised as for a lot of women it coincides with other factors that can complicate recovery from depression: long stretches alone on maternity leave, physical recovery, being on 24-7, change of role in society, society judging all your choices etc, having no time away from the baby. These factors very rarely impact on men as they do women.

Also I'm dubious about the figures, they say 10% of men will have it and this is the same as the figure for women but I've more usually read 3%:13% for the first year.

This does not mean I think male depression is unimportant. I am simply wary that now we can't highlight anything as being of concern to women primarily without being called 'sexist' in ways that really don't reflect differences in experience in the real world for most.

Perspicacia - you're right about the focus on parenting being in response to government initiatives. The NCT was able to sell its services to a lot of local authorities who were being expected to provide parenting classes for new and expectant parents. The charity positions itself now as being about the "first 1000 days", not just pregnancy and birth.

It still does of course campaign for improvements to maternity services and midwifery care, but it also campaigns for things like paid paternity leave.

But who can blame it? When money is short, then of course you're going to try to find it from other sources, and if that means pitching for government-funded contracts, then so be it. And money is short. Any better suggestions for how they could raise funds?

Replacing the Fundraising Director (another bully, and one of the key drivers behind their move away from pregnancy and birth to parenting) and reinstating a proper campaigns department would be a good start! Hopefully this is something the new CEO will prioritise.

I don't get why we make 'women's issues' the preserve only of women. They should be the issues of society as a whole.

So I guess I fail to see why deliberately separating yourself off from half the population serves your interest. Your interest should become a shared one that benefits society as a whole rather than one that only serves a minority.

I think the success of other minority campaigns has really come when that's been done and its been about equality and supporting those who have been unfairly treated regardless of your own gender, colour or sexuality.

Women's rights should be everyone's problem.

Absolutely agree with you, RedToothBrush.

YANBU op. And I find it really odd when people try and compare these situations to say, women mechanics. When it would be more comparable to women in charge of gay men's health charities as mentioned up thread.

I don't get why we make 'women's issues' the preserve only of women. They should be the issues of society as a whole.

They are 'women's issues' because they have been ignored by general population (well, the men in charge) all along. SO it is not somehow making the problem go away by getting a man to take charge

Women's rights should be everyone's problem but very often men (even when they want to be involved, usually they don't, see above about the lack of male NCT volunteers) don't understand what women want and need. That was surely the whole reason why the NCT was set up. A group of women felt that male obstetricians weren't serving their interests particularly well.

If the NCT wants to move towards mainly male issues around parenthood (male PND and paternity leave as suggested above) I think a male CEO is the right choice. I just think that's a pity for the women doing most of the work on the ground given that there are still so many issues that disproportionately affect them.

The nct was founded based on the writings of a man.

Women should have access to safe, appropriate maternity care. Women should have prompt access to therapy and additional support to recover from PND. Women should not feel extreme trauma from being treated unkindly during maternity care. They don't, a lot of the time.. What is and what should be are often different.

I am just not sure how ignoring inequality stops it. I don't think that pretending pregnancy and childbirth impact women and men the same way is positive. That's not denigrating men. Men don't and never will understand what it is to be pregnant, give birth or breastfeed. Even women who never have done any of these things have grown up with information about these events directed at and to them, so have a different understanding of the issues.

I agree that comparing it to sexuality is good. I campaigned for gay marriage equality in Ireland but I didn't need gay focused charities to make my issues their focus to win my support, nor did I need a straight figurehead to understand the need for equality for a group I do not belong to.

The nct was founded based on the writings of a man.

Isn't this a symptom of a society in which men lead and women follow? He happened to publish a book about natural childbirth that was picked up and noted. I'm sure that there were many women at the time working quietly as midwives saying exactly the same thing but they weren't lauded in the same way. After all the (male) obstetrics profession was far more respected than the (female) midwifery one.

There were women working in the field of Natural childbirth at the time. Minnie Randall, Kathleen Vaughan are two names which spring to mind. I think Kathleen Vaughan got caught up with the eugenics movement of the time, so she is glossed over now.

But yes, something said time and time again by a woman is ignored until a man says it and then suddenly, it's a brilliant idea.

karmakameleon
Women's rights should be everyone's problem but very often men (even when they want to be involved, usually they don't, see above about the lack of male NCT volunteers) don't understand what women want and need.

That's one huge generalisation. It's also defeatist, alienating and likely to result in a self-fulfilling prophesy. A lack of male NCT volunteers is not evidence of a lack of interest - maybe they (like some of the posters on this thread) thought it was the preserve of women; maybe their participation hasn't been encouraged. I can't see any downsides of encouraging greater male involvement.

Women's rights should be everyone's problem but very often men (even when they want to be involved, usually they don't, see above about the lack of male NCT volunteers) don't understand what women want and need.

Yes a generalisation, hence the "very often" and "usually". No one is saying men shouldn't be encouraged to participate more.

Several people who are against a male CEO have said they would like more male grass roots involvement. The question is should a man lead an organisation set up by women to primarily represent womens' interests. Obviously if that organisation now wants to represent male interests a man probably is the right choice.

I can't see any downsides of encouraging greater male involvement

I can. It seems this organization has already moved focus from birth to parenting, which is fine, but it seems like it's harder to find somewhere that women can deal with the (often grim) realities of childbirth in a frank manner. My experience is that women gloss over the worst of it for men and women who haven't had children so I think assuming that men really can lead in this area is a bit of a mistake.

I suppose it depends in where society wants to focus. Parenting, male PND, if that's the priority, men really can take a leadership role. But the horrors of childbirth? That's really for mothers amongst themselves.