AIBU to be disappointed that the new CEO of the NCT is a man?

[ArcheryAnnie]

The new CEO of the NCT is due to start work shortly - a man, Nick Wilkie.

The NCT's mission is to support parents during pregnancy, birth and early childhood. Their line re the new CEO is that men can be parents, but my line is that it's only women who get pregnant and give birth.

There are many, many senior, suitably qualified women in the UK who could perform this role. Furthermore, from my experience with the NCT, all the events I went to, it was women who do most of the work. I'm tired of organisations where women make up the majority of the volunteers, or the workers, but where a man is the CEO. I didn't expect it of the NCT.

AIBU to feel massively disappointed that the NCT are putting a man in charge?

Well maybe it is time for a new organization focused on supporting women through pregnancy, birth and the aftermath and campaigning for better birth conditions and choices rather than generalized parenting.

humble I feel sorry for you as you are clearly unable to explain what on earth you are talking about.

If, regardless of his sex, he can get rid of some of the dead weights around NCT then good for him. If ever a charity was in need of an organisational shake up then it's NCT. There are far too many who are there on sole virtue of being around for years and thinking they run the organisation, but are actually liabilities. Belinda Phipps leaving was a good first step so now let's hope others follow in her stead. The new CEO certainly has his work cut out for him!

Hi TTWK, can you choose your words better even if you are in support of every cause!? WTAF is a "black organisation"?? Are all causes just the same be they: charities, policies, initiatives, ideas to the benefit of poorer beings etc. What is a 'black cause'? And where do I sign up to 'help'?

OK, it wasn't me who first used this silly argument against a male CEO of the NCT. Someone else said a black organisation would never appoint a white CEO. And I just said it wasn't true.

The example I used was a sickle cell anaemia charity. This would be a charity fighting for funds for what is mainly a black issue, and one assumes would be staffed by mainly black people, with mainly black volunteers and the CEO vacancy would be applied for my mainly black people because they are likely to be the ones who would know about the charity and follow what was going on.

But if Richard Branson applied for the job, they'd bite his arm off, because ultimately they want to raise as much money as they can to help people and a high profile appointment like that would be great for them.

That's it really, hope this helps. No divisiveness, no racism, nothing.

ApocolapyseThen, and what's the betting, if it so happened that one arose that was successful that as soon as it started to generate revenue it would be "unfair" not to broaden its remit to include men?
I think it's a bloody travesty it's become a "parenting" charity. Why can't there be a charity that's just about childbirth? There are already a lot of organisations providing support to parents.

AIBU to feel massively disappointed that the NCT are putting a man in charge?

Yes, you are being unreasonable. Do you really think that unlawful sex discrimination in the workplace is a good thing? (I doubt very much that recruitment for this role would qualify for an exemption to the legislation).

Ok, I'm being very brave by posting my feelings because I already know I'm going to get slaughtered.

I don't think it matters whether the CEO is a man or a woman because the attitude of the organisation has bordered dangerously close to patriarchal in recent years.

Before you start throwing things, please hear me out! I'm all for natural birth. I think it's a beautiful, fantastic thing. BUT only of it's an informed choice made freely by the woman herself. Not if she's in any way forced or shamed or bullied into it.
Sadly and unfortunately, at every NCT class I felt bullied and judged when I expressed that natural birth was not for me. In the end I had a planned cesarean and I don't regret this decision one bit- but I was repeatedly told that I would never be as empowered as a woman who gave birth naturally and that I wouldn't have the same bond with my baby. I was repeatedly told I "shouldn't" have an epidural or a cesarean and that I would regret my choice if I did. I was told I'd thank them later if I listened to what was being told. I found this attitude disturbingly patronising.

NCT classes focus mainly on giving birth with no pain relief and breastfeeding whereas any other choices such as epidurals, cesareans and formula are discussed only to warn women about how awful they are.

While forcing a medicalised approach to childbirth on women is patriarchal and horrible, forcing a natural birth on an unwilling woman is no better.

NCT, whether it's being led by a man or a woman, should focus on informed choices and completely unbiased information free from any underlying agendas. Feminism to me is about women being free to make their own reproductive choices- and this includes how they give birth. Whether it be a natural birth in a pool or a planned cesarean: an informed choice is empowering. And women's rights to make those choices should be respected

FizzyJuiceJunkie: "NCT classes focus mainly on giving birth with no pain relief and breastfeeding whereas any other choices such as epidurals, cesareans and formula are discussed only to warn women about how awful they are."

I did NCT classes years ago, and my experience was completely different from yours. There was no warning that caesareans were a terrible thing, just a helpful description of why you might need one and what that would entail (the teacher used PlayMobil to demonstrate who would be present at a c-section and what it involved).

I'm not trying to play down your experience, which sounds awful, but it's by no means universal. And I know lots of other people who have had very positive experience of NCT classes.

I have had since had some involvement with NCT at a national level, and I know that they are trying very hard to be evidence-based, inclusive and non-judgemental. They know there are some hardline teachers out there, but it's not always easy to keep tabs on what every antenatal teacher throughout the country is doing, though they are trying, I think, to share good practice as much as possible.

I was repeatedly told that I would never be as empowered as a woman who gave birth naturally and that I wouldn't have the same bond with my baby. I was repeatedly told I "shouldn't" have an epidural or a cesarean and that I would regret my choice if I did. I was told I'd thank them later if I listened to what was being told. I found this attitude disturbingly patronising.

FizzyJuiceJunkie I hope you complained. That pretty much breaks every guideline in the book.

I'm so glad others have had positive experiences! I did realise that my experience wasn't going to be the case across the board.

I can't remember the names right now, might pop back in and post about it later, but there have been some people affiliated with the NCT who have spoken out against a woman's right to choose epidurals and cesareans and this always hits very close to home.

While I know that my experience was extreme (and yes, I definitely did complain about it) I will say that the general discussion isn't always as balanced as I would like it to be. My sister for example, was told in painful detail what the risks of a cesarean and/or epidural would be but nobody told her about the possibility of the fourth degree year and fecal incontinence she had as a result of a natural birth. In Retrospect, she and I both feel that a debate around options in childbirth isn't always balanced.

Therefore, I don't care whether the CEO is a man or a woman. I only hope that he/she looks at truly providing women with unbiased information to enable informed choices.

To answer FizzieJuice years ago, at the class I went to the teacher was an enthusiastic supporter of the local heavily interventionist CLU. Since I had an absolutely sh*tty time at that hospital, I didn't find that her classes had been all that helpful. The local support groups were all into Mums & baby meet ups which wasn't what I wanted either. So I gave up on them.

That seemed to be the problem - in trying to be all things to all people, they ended up not quite satisfying anyone.

I think on balance though, it's a pity that they couldn't find a woman to head up the organisation - as others say, in organisations which are predominantly women, why does it nearly always seem to be a man who is the best qualified to lead?

FizzyJuice I'm so sorry you had that experience! I didn't go to an nct class but an NHS one, and it was similar - the midwife told me in front of the whole class that I was making a terrible mistake by having a planned c-section. Well, fuck that. (I quite liked her apart from that.)

I've said all along that my main problem with this appointment is that an organisation focusing on what women do (pregnancy and childbirth as well as parenting), and where women do most of the paid and unpaid work, having a male CEO sends entirely the wrong message - that women are available for the grunt work, but when it comes to leadership, only a man will do.

Been pondering this for a while now. And I think I've moved from thinking, yes it is disappointing, to thinking, okay maybe he'll be a good CEO. As an organisation it was ready for new leadership and I hope it all works out. I agree NCT is moving more into parenting than childbirth. It IS still for informed choice though.Sadly, something sometimes gets lost in translation. I have come across women who have misunderstood the message. For various reasons. But fear and anxiety around birth and new parenthood can play a part. Sometimes the communicator has got it wrong. Also, I have heard some utter nonsense spoken by people running NCT groups, whether classes run by trained practitioners or by volunteers. But on the whole people are doing their best, I'd like to think.

The whole matter of complications around childbirth and how they are
discussed in classes will never go away. And would take up a whole thread on its own - and does often on MN. But I believe it is a myth that NCT is anti this and anti that. Many people would be surprised to know the breadth of birth and parenting experiences, good and bad, amongst nct activists. Those who are truly well trained will be quite dispassionate and giving the facts only, and not discussing their own experiences all the time, if at all, so often you wouldn't know. At times of course this does not happen and that is very unfortunate.

For those interested in campaigning for better mat services, there is already an organisation. AIMS - Association for Improvements in Maternity Services. However, like NCT it can be very much a marmite set-up, in my experience of both. It is very much a pressure group whereas NCT has always been more a support group. You can look at their website and see if it's what you are interested in.

During my pondering, it has occurred to me what would we all think if Women's' Hour was suddenly presented by a bunch of men? Is that the same analogy? I am unsure. I agree with others who say it's a shame no woman was deemed as good as Nick Wilkie, but to be a good CEO it does not need to be a woman. I just hope he brings some of the traits Belinda lacked. I was involved with NCT during a large chunk of her 'reign'. (I eventually walked away) She began very well, but latterly a lot of activists did not like her style. I assume she also was ready for a change.

If Woman's Hour was presented by a bunch of men? I think we would notice a subtle shift from a woman's perspective and it might become 'What Men think Woman's Hour is'.

But NCT isn't just about women is it? It's about supporting parents. And men can be parents too.

TopazRocks if he doesn't condone bullying and harassment among his colleagues then that would be a good start!

The NCT certainly started off just about women and childbirth - a reaction to women giving birth without any knowledge or power over what was happening to them, and to just being told to do as the doctors (male, no doubt) said.

Yes, men are parents too - but childbirth is not happening to men's bodies - it happens to women, so there is some space for childbirth to be all about the woman.

Well, if they'd appointed this guy when they started off then maybe the complaining about his appointment would be valid. But it's not just about childbirth and women anymore and as such, that reasoning regarding the current appointment is a bit redundant.

Do we want a woman heading NCT or a mother? What is the difference between a man and woman who has not given birth? What you saying because a man has not had the experience of giving birth that precludes him from being able to lead an organisation. Surely this is to be said for any brilliant professional woman who has not given birth. Surely we should be judging a CEO on occupational experience and their plan for the future of the organisation. His senior management team will no doubt be mostly female. I think this is frankly sexist.

The board is apparently 12 women and 15 men. So that's a majority of the board of the National Childbirth Trust that not only just hasn't chosen/been unable to give birth - but cannot. Don't have the biological whatnot to do so.

There is something wrong there - and it starts with the ideology that "men are the bosses" - since the voluntary/ lower levels of the NCT are predominantly filled by women.

It's now just NCT I think. Of the 15 trustees 3 are men, which to me, for an organisation which is primarily about childbirth and early years parenting, is about the right balance.

I think it's a bloody travesty it's become a "parenting" charity. Why can't there be a charity that's just about childbirth? There are already a lot of organisations providing support to parents.

Have to say, I agree with this too.

www.nct.org.uk/about-nct/trustees

12 women. 3 men. 15 in total.

One of the three is a Dad who stays at home raising his children (though it looks like he also does some work for the SNP from home).

Google is a magnificent invention. A couple of clicks and there is no 'apparently' about it.

And as stated upthread, it is no longer the childbirth has been dropped.

I didn't realise the childbirth had been dropped until this thread but it really shocks me. Why on earth was the childbirth dropped? Is it just not meaty enough a topic, having all those funds coming in for something that can only be experienced by women? I just can't understand why there needed to be a shift in emphasis in this way. I'm sure if you ask 9/10 non-active NCT members or members of the public they would tell you it was the National Childbirth Trust, and with good reason given its membership and the fact that most people are aware of it for pregnancy/childbirth related information and breastfeeding support.

I clicked on the page and the main banner was about male PND. I'm sure it's a terrible reality for the relatively few men who have it - as it is for the HUGE number of women who experience it (most of whom will also be expected to be providing hands-on care for a baby and/or other children while recovering, when this true for far fewer men). I'm just not sure that it needs to be highlighted by this charity. I'm sure there were others who could have taken up this cause as a worthy one.

It's just... interesting that something that was the National Childbirth Trust now highlights men's health causes and dropped the Childbirth from its title to make it more universal for parents. That to me is far more concerning than the sex of its CEO.