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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to be disappointed that the new CEO of the NCT is a man?

368 replies

ArcheryAnnie · 26/06/2015 23:29

The new CEO of the NCT is due to start work shortly - a man, Nick Wilkie.

The NCT's mission is to support parents during pregnancy, birth and early childhood. Their line re the new CEO is that men can be parents, but my line is that it's only women who get pregnant and give birth.

There are many, many senior, suitably qualified women in the UK who could perform this role. Furthermore, from my experience with the NCT, all the events I went to, it was women who do most of the work. I'm tired of organisations where women make up the majority of the volunteers, or the workers, but where a man is the CEO. I didn't expect it of the NCT.

AIBU to feel massively disappointed that the NCT are putting a man in charge?

OP posts:
girliefriend · 27/06/2015 18:55

YANBU

hackmum · 27/06/2015 19:05

LaVolcan: that's not true. They are campaigning for improvements in maternity care. But they also want to focus on parenting, specifically early days parenting - hence the first 1000 days. So they campaign on stuff like paternity leave as well as on things like having one-to-one midwifery care.

TooManyMochas · 27/06/2015 19:36

I don't get this. We want men to step up and parent equally with women, but we don't want a man in charge of the NCT.

MrsHathaway · 27/06/2015 19:42

My main objection to BP was that she seemed to spend far more time campaigning about Nestlé than maternity services.

I started NCTing in 2007 within an excellent local group. Gradually I watched it eroded as support from HQ diminished - the funds we had worked hard to raise spirited away to fund grand but locally-irrelevant causes, while our BFCs and AN/PN teachers were paid so badly they were working at a loss.

I left when they failed to protect my data and admitted their systems couldn't meet DP laws. The Information Commissioner got involved there too, and I had personal correspondence from BP completely missing the point and laying a guilt trip.

Their processes have been improved apparently but I can no longer consider it to have integrity. Maybe this man can shake things up and drag them into the 21st century.

TTWK · 27/06/2015 20:12

I'm not turning your post into some sort of supremacy theme but words matter. It is all we have to go on here. And language like that is divisive.

It's not divisive at all. Unless you have an agenda and you wish to take it that way.

The original point made that I was arguing against, that a black organisation wouldn't appoint a white CEO, was divisive, and untrue. Any organisation worth it's salt would appoint the best candidate for any particular roll.

duplodon · 27/06/2015 20:27

Maybe all this just says the NCT needs to change their name. It's not the National Parenting Trust, it's the National Childbirth Trust and as far as I know, no amount of stepping up makes this a possibility for men. I'm also not sure that becoming CEO of an organisation is the same as "stepping up" as a parent. It's surely just becoming CEO of an organisation.

Again, he may very well be a superb CEO, I certainly don't think he can't be a great CEO of the NCT because he's a man. I don't doubt he can be passionate, committed; that he is appropriately qualified.

I do doubt that women are so inferior to men that in nine cases out of ten it just so happens that when a man and a woman go for a position, the man will be the best candidate for the role. I think that pretending you can judge these things on an "equal" basis is a bit of a joke, as is saying it's "sexist" to even want to question just how it happens, time and time again, that organisations that are predominantly female at lower levels are headed up by men.

Had to laugh to read that the reason that most women aren't CEO's is just that they don't want to. So, no chance of systemic social conditioning having some impact, none?

Sansarya · 27/06/2015 20:32

It isn't the National Childbirth Trust anymore, it's just NCT. From a marketing point of view changing their name completely wouldn't be wise given the reputation they've built up over the past sixty years, but I agree that it is confusing.

contortionist · 27/06/2015 20:46

Had to laugh to read that the reason that most women aren't CEO's is just that they don't want to. So, no chance of systemic social conditioning having some impact, none?

I agree with you that there is a big social factor, and this of course has public policy implications, in education and elsewhere.

But from an employer's point of view, it makes little difference - either way, the pool of female candidates is smaller than male candidates. Employers can make efforts to develop female talent internally, but if recruiting a CEO from outside, surely there's nothing that they can do?

NotJustaPotforSoup · 27/06/2015 20:53

Depends on the brief that they gave the search consultants, contortionist. And if it were search only and not advertised (I don't know), then there may have been women who would have been interested but weren't aware.

Like I say, if he can motivate men to step up to the parenting plate, then many of the barriers to women advancing to ceo positions can be broken down. Good luck to him.

Original poster
ArcheryAnnie · 27/06/2015 20:55

I do doubt that women are so inferior to men that in nine cases out of ten it just so happens that when a man and a woman go for a position, the man will be the best candidate for the role. I think that pretending you can judge these things on an "equal" basis is a bit of a joke, as is saying it's "sexist" to even want to question just how it happens, time and time again, that organisations that are predominantly female at lower levels are headed up by men.

This, this, a thousand times this. Thanks, duplodon, for putting it so clearly.

OP posts:
tobysmum77 · 27/06/2015 22:20

Is it just about institutional sexism or is the reality that a greater proportion of women just cba with all that corporate bullshit? Personally I work to live rather than the other way round and that isn't going to change anytime soon. Dont want to Stereotype though, may just be me Wink

Wideopenspace · 27/06/2015 22:29

It's about institutional sexism, social conditioning and the patriarchal nature of our society tobysmum.

How much free will do any of us actually have?

tobysmum77 · 27/06/2015 22:33

I think actually that's quite patronising. I can only speak for myself but I really dont want to be a director, not social conditioning or patriarchal society at the centre.

Wideopenspace · 27/06/2015 22:36

Oh god, I'm sorry toby - I honestly didn't mean to be patronising!

I really do believe what I said - the bit at the end about free will was me musing. It's something I think about alot - how many decisions do we make that are free from social conditioning?

Many apologies

Devora · 27/06/2015 22:41

NCT needs to appoint the best person for the job, and assuming that this guy is the best person for the job I wish him well.

However, that doesn't mean that I can't think it's a shame that a woman wasn't the right person for the job. Which is how I feel about the new headteacher (male) of my kids' school (predominantly female workforce, of course). I'm sure he was the best person for the job. They always are, aren't they? Hmm Funny how so often they are also one of the small number of men in that field.

I'm upset to hear about Susie Parsons, though. I used to know her when she was at Lighthouse Sad

tobysmum77 · 27/06/2015 22:41

No I agree with you, that's exactly the point I was making but from.the other side - how much of the glass ceiling is social conditioning/ institutional sexism and how much is individuals? I consider myself too rebellious to be socially conditioned so too rebellious to be a director also probably but we only have our own experiences to base stuff on? It's impossible to know Confused

Viviennemary · 27/06/2015 22:45

No I don't think it's appropriate. In fact it's an outrage. A man doesn't give birth so as long as it's the NCT then a man shouldn't be heading it. IMHO.

TheHumblePotato · 27/06/2015 23:04

tobysmum77 I honestly feel sorry for you.

Stinkersmum · 27/06/2015 23:07

^ why???

Stinkersmum · 27/06/2015 23:10

Viviennemary the CEO won't be giving classes and the nct isn't just about childbirth. You clearly are another that doesn't actually understand what a CEO role involves.

Burke1 · 27/06/2015 23:10

I think YABU in wanting to discriminate against him because of his gender. Let's wait and see if he does a good job before making assumptions. What particular private bits the CEO of anything has is not really relevant, only their competence in doing the job so let's give him a shot.

TheHumblePotato · 27/06/2015 23:18

The original point made that I was arguing against, that a black organisation wouldn't appoint a white CEO, was divisive, and untrue. Any organisation worth it's salt would appoint the best candidate for any particular roll

Hi TTWK, can you choose your words better even if you are in support of every cause!? WTAF is a "black organisation"?? Are all causes just the same be they: charities, policies, initiatives, ideas to the benefit of poorer beings etc. What is a 'black cause'? And where do I sign up to 'help'?

Viviennemary · 28/06/2015 01:02

That tired old argument. If somebody disagrees with you they obviously must not understand the issue.

Stinkersmum · 28/06/2015 01:11

But by arguing that he can't be good ceo because he can't give birth is just an ignorant stance. Karen Brady and Mike Glazer aren't professional footballers. I don't think Rupert Murdoch knows how to make a sky digi box. Mike Ashley doesn't look as though he partakes in much sport. Lesley-Anne Alexander isn't blind. Harpal Kumar has never had cancer. I could go on.

Viviennemary · 28/06/2015 01:28

But most of these people are in it to make money. I thought the NCT had other aims. But it would seem not. If people are happy with that then fine. I think it's very disappointing indeed.