Fasting and ability to work

[ChipsOnChips]

Yesterday DC was booked to have an operation - not massively complex but not minor either. The surgery was scheduled for late afternoon and would have taken some time.

Prior to the surgery the dr visited us and it became apparant they were fasting. I felt very uncomfortable about the op going ahead and very conflicted that I felt uncomfortable.

Was I being unreasonable to be concerned?

Please post your proof that fasting causes more RTA in the UK

It's 'controversial' because it's just another way of bashing us Muslims. Bad Muslims. Now you cause car crashes with your stupid ways

oh well i guess we have to disagree then. i lived in muslim countries for years and in a muslim area now and it is noticeably more bad tempered corner cutting driving esp towards the end of the day. probably the caffeine/cigarette withdrawal as much as anything for some people. i expect all the police campaigns about road safety in muslim countries are all just anti-muslim

Do people get concerns every Christmas about drunk driving, car crashes and hungover surgeons?

I live in the UAE and yes the roads are noticeably more dangerous just before Iftar - this is not Muslim bashing at all as I wouldn't be living in a Muslim country if I had anything against them but there are definitely people driving faster and taking less care with lane changes etc And understandably so really, I would also probably drive with less attention if I was rushing to get to where I needed to be to eat and drink for the first time that day.

I think its fair to say that fasting affects different people in different ways. Some not at all, others feel clearer headed and others debilitated by it to a greater or lesser extent.

In this context if it's your child undergoing a procedure then it is only natural to be concerned, so the OP is not unreasonable in raising the question. I hope she and others reading feel reassured by the answers already given and that they take on board the fact that there are many other hidden issues that could affect performance.

Muslims fasting comes up because it is such a more widespread practice now and Ramadan is more publicised. Some people will only just be encountering it for the first time ever. In time there will undoubtedly be greater prior understanding and less questioning.

It's unreasonable to become so belligerent and defensive about being asked about something which to many is still a mystery. It might come up year after year but presumably there are new / different posters who haven't seen previous threads. It doesn't help in bringing about understanding to automatically tar anyone who asks anything about or makes an observation on Islam as being racist or Islamobhobic. There are lots of threads where people are given grief about all manner of matters innocuous and not.

i liked your link, pyjamallamas. it is hard for muslims in non muslim countries i think, where the whole pace of life can change to make life easier and safer.

Pyjamas - I have objections to smelly breath caused by booze too. Wasn't generally an occurrence in my old office though as my colleagues were almost all Muslim and so didn't generally go on wild boozy nights out. It is a fact that if you don't keep hydrated, your breath smells - don't think anyone could argue that that isn't the case.

Also agree re road traffic accidents. Have spent lots of time in the Middle East and it is widely publicised and accepted that there are significantly more accidents during the holy month.

Oh hello Mistress. Fancy seeing you on a thread about Muslims.
Yes I do get defensive because these threads always always turn into Islam bashing. Always.

Yes but I'm asking about the UK not the Middle East where driving is a bit bonkers anyway. Where is the evidence that fasting causes more RTA in the UK?
Anyway whatever I'm not going to go on and on about driving.
My point is these threads always go the same way

I'm a scrub nurse and we have many muslim surgeons who fast. It rarely causes a problem (apart from very junior female Drs keeling over). If the surgeon feels it may be a problem, they reduce their operating lists or work elsewhere. As many surgeons (and nurses for that matter) in general are used to going hours without food or drink anyway, we become used to it.

As a scrub nurse, if I suspected a problem, there is no way the surgeon would be touching my patient full stop (done it before when surgeon wouldn't wash their hands properly).

It's ok to question this matter, but there are inbuilt systems to deal with potential problems.

However, as a non religious person, I do believe that they should be allowed water. Especially in very hot countries.

Pyjamas It looks like umi Aisha is a muslim, at least by her username or at the very least she appears to be married to a muslim. So she's hardly bashing Islam, just raising the same observations that some of the non-muslims are.

I keep saying this, but you should really stop with the eternally persecuted victim complex and just discuss rationally.

In discussing rationally. Someone commented on driving in the uk and I have asked rationally where the evidence is for increase in RTA in the uk caused by fasting. I'm not interested in the Middle East as I don't live there and not do te majority of MNetters

There is no victim complex just the reality of constantly having to justify my existence.

Yes mistress I am not a Muslim, but oh is! I don't tend to Muslim-bash, except when he leaves his socks on the floor and eats his way through my chocolate stash!

Teacup yes of course people are concerned at Christmas time about all those things. It isn't unusual to see campaigns surrounding safe driving, drink driving increase in traffic police and random road side testing

Yes but people don't post on Mumsnet voicing their concerns about surgeons operating around Christmas time

There is no victim complex just the reality of constantly having to justify my existence

And beliefs

Teacup you are attempting to draw a comparison between someone who is in fact fasting and someone who potentially might be hungover.

Do you really think someone wouldn't have posted if they'd turned up for surgery and the doctor was in fact clearly hungover? I certainly would have.

his way through my chocolate stash! well at least Ramadan will put a stop to that. Only so much you can gorge at Iftar.

How come's there's no pressure on you to fast ? Have you not converted ? I always found that it was so socially taboo to eat publicly anyway and would feel guilty eating in front of others, that you as good as fasted anyway.

*Pyjama's: I agree the ME stats aren't relevant to here, but there are a number of posters commenting from their own perspective of their experiences in the ME countries they are residing in, so their observations are valid. You're quite within your rights to say that data does not extrapolate to affecting UK muslims.

Do you feel reassured chips given the number of posters who have mentioned all the other things which can affect surgeons plus the fact that many make it through the day without eating/drinking plus the fact that surgeons would know of their ability was impaired and thy don't actually want to harm anyone plus the fact that if someone feels like they will pass out when fasting they are allowed to drink?

Teacup all sorts of beliefs and ideologies are open to question and justification. The more ludicrous or more harmful they appear to be, the more they'll be questioned. Islam's just the current one wreaking the most chaos, so par for the course I'm afraid.

Oh dear. Mn is ridden with these types of threads in Ramadan.

Db is a surgeon and quite often goes without food and drink for an entire 8 shift. It had never affected him and he works alongside many excellent Muslim surgeons and scrub nurses. If there ever ever ever was any incident in the last 50 years of an op being botched by a fasting surgeon it would have been global news by now I'm sure.

I do the 5 2 diet sometimes and feel very alert. Most people on this first easy late in the evening and many do not easy at all your 24 hours and complete liquid fasts. Something very odd going on at mn these days. Some very goady posts directed at specific people.

OP I think the thing to have done here would be just to have asked him about it. I'm a surgeon and have a lot of Muslim colleagues, most of whom fast and are asked about it often, by colleagues and patients alike. I can't think of any Muslim colleague I've ever worked with who would have had a problem being asked about their fasting and if you had any reason to be concerned about them fasting and operating and what backup was available if they felt unwell or unable to continue (very unlikely in my experience). Usually the best thing to do in the situations is to be calm, open and honest. Muslim doctors in the UK are used to working in a large multicultural environment where people are often curious about their practices and beliefs and most are very willing to discuss these things. The only concern I've ever seen with a fasting colleague was a scrub nurse who was fasting and fainted twice in a week in theatre but didn't feel she needed to stop scrubbing for cases. Her team leader pulled her out of scrubbing unaccompanied during Ramadan and she either always had someone scrub with her or was the u scrubbed nurse in theatre where she could leave and be replaced easily if necessary. Most people are responsible and aware of their own limitations.