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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Fasting and ability to work

224 replies

ChipsOnChips · 20/06/2015 07:09

Yesterday DC was booked to have an operation - not massively complex but not minor either. The surgery was scheduled for late afternoon and would have taken some time.

Prior to the surgery the dr visited us and it became apparant they were fasting. I felt very uncomfortable about the op going ahead and very conflicted that I felt uncomfortable.

Was I being unreasonable to be concerned?

OP posts:
swiggityswoogity · 21/06/2015 00:19

cannot believe the woo being out forward here.

no, God will not keep you strong. you cannot overcome physical and metabolic processes through faith any more than faith will make you a safe driver after a couple of pints. even if you are a professional, even if you have been doing it since you were a teen

and fasting from 0400 till 2100 day after day after day is not the same as missing lunch.

no potassium = shakes.

Teacup246 · 21/06/2015 03:54

God does keep people strong, you have no idea

Metabolic processes can be overcome

Never had any shakes in over 20 years of fasting

Only ever had shakes when I have not been fasting and missed a meal

lilivonshtupp · 21/06/2015 04:00

Oh.

Teacup246 · 21/06/2015 04:02
Smile
GhoulWithADragonTattoo · 21/06/2015 04:33

Can I add to this that fasting in the UK at this time of year with such long daylight hours is actually much harder than in most Muslim countries with shorter daylight hours. Consequently the level of impairment a surgeon might suffer is worse than elsewhere. How did you handle this OP, did you express your concerns?

Isetan · 21/06/2015 07:49

I wasn't being "coy" and saying "it became apparent" was simply to save on words and to avoid the drawn out explanation that he told me that he was fasting in response to being offered a sweet no not from the DC that was fasting, the other one which is frankly irrelevant and dull. If you consider that revelation a drip feed you've clearly not been on MN long.

Became apparent suggests that there was something in his behaviour or demeanour (fatigue, disorientation etc) that led you to a conclusion, instead of the more specific and succinct 'he told my son he was fasting when my son offered him a sweet'. The phrasing was deliberate to give an apparent legitimacy to your concerns.

Been on MN long enough to smell bullshit a mile off.

sashh · 21/06/2015 07:55

GeraldineFangedVagine

Do you have glucose as well? I remember a Dr feeling unwell in a cath lab and the non scrub nurse holding a carton of a glucose drink so that he could drink it with a straw.

I really don't get this unhealthy obsession MN and some other places seem to have with Muslims fasting.

News people, Jews fast, some Christians fast, Hindus fast, I've worked in a hospital in the morning fasting, because I was having an op in the afternoon. Had I felt my ability to work was impaired I would not have done it.

My colleagues knew and they would have had no problem telling me if they thought I was impaired in any way.

StonedGalah · 21/06/2015 08:07

OP l would be concerned as l wouldn't be able to judge if he was capable until after the operation and everything went well.

I'm not sure l would have done anything but l genuinely think your concern is ok.

Considering the body needs food for energy etc and the UK is a predominantly Christian country l dont think being curious, questioning and generally wanting to know more is an unhealthy obsession Hmm

Original poster
ChipsOnChips · 21/06/2015 08:11

isetan you're wrong. My phrasing was nothing more than an attempt to be succinct.

It was phrased to use 3 words instead of the at least 14 your suggestion would have required and which would have provoked the need for additional clarification around why my DC was eating it was the other DC

I know you really want me to be a racist bigot so you can work yourself up into a little frenzy but I'm really not. I'm a worried mum who would have been equally concerned if the dr had mentioned he'd been up all night with his sick DC or drinking shots of tequila at a stag do and therefore been potentially impaired. Only that wasn't the issue.

ghoul asked me if I expressed my concerns. I didn't. Because in large part I felt embarrassed of offending the doctor or being accused a racist. I'm still not sure that was the right thing to do.

OP posts:
umiaisha · 21/06/2015 08:31

Oh is Muslim, but doesn't fast. He has first hand experience of fasting and would agree with op.

I used to work with a lady who fasted whilst pregnant as apparently this would earn her extra brownie points with Allah (pbuh) - crazy!! Going to get totally flamed for this but I used to hate Ramadan when I was working as I would have to endure a month of working with people who had the worst smelling breath due to severe dehydration..

mamadoc · 21/06/2015 08:45

I think it is fair enough to be concerned if your DC is having an op about anything that could impair the surgeon's performance.

I also think it would have been fine for you to raise it in that context eg 'that must be hard when you are operating. Do you feel it affects you? Do you do anything differently?' You might then find that in fact he does not fast on operating days (this is allowed as an exclusion like pregnancy or long journeys) or that he books shorter lists or something else.

Fundamentally all Drs are under a professional duty not to work if their performance is impaired to the extent it could harm patients. The GMC is very clear about that. Colleagues would also be very clear about that. I have sent my junior Drs home sometimes when they have come into work ill or very upset due to a personal problem. I would have no problem at all in calling a consultant colleague on an issue like this either.

The culture has changed a lot in the last 10 years and the old school surgical consultant who thinks he is God and everyone is scared of is dying out in my experience. The emphasis is a lot more on teamwork now. Your child's safety is the responsibility of the whole team not just that one surgeon (remember the anaesthetist is also a consultant and in fact the anaesthetist is in some ways more 'in charge' than the surgeon. The op can't go ahead if they are not satisfied it is safe).

YANBU to be concerned.
YABU not to raise it because of religious sensibility as it is just the same as any other performance concern.
You would be unreasonable to cancel because of this but of course you do have that choice.

Teacup246 · 21/06/2015 08:51

Going to get totally flamed for this but I used to hate Ramadan when I was working as I would have to endure a month of working with people who had the worst smelling breath due to severe dehydration

What's this severe dehydration? Never experienced it in over 20 years fasting and all the Muslims I know who fast don't have smelly breath. I know plenty of non falters who have smelly breath though

I hate Christmas because lots of people drink and I have to endure a month of working with people with smelly breath due to hangovers

Isetan · 21/06/2015 08:58

You've posted in AIBU and I think you were, just as others don't. I don't want or need anyone to be a bigot but I will call someone out when I believe them to be disingenuous.

If you had asked the surgeon he may have given you an answer that could have put you at ease (you still can) but instead, your asking a bunch of people who can't because we are not the ones performing surgery on your child. However, I don't think the point of this thread is to your assuage your fears.

Teacup246 · 21/06/2015 08:59

I really don't get this unhealthy obsession MN and some other places seem to have with Muslims fasting

Similar posts every year Hmm

PyjamasLlamas · 21/06/2015 09:00

3rd/4th? thread in 2 days about fasting. Every bloody year us Muslims have to endure this. I've been on MN long enough to know Muslims are fair game to criticise for EVERYTHING we do. Nothing is right. We try to explain and just get shut down.
Now it's all about smelly breath and Oooh those poor 10yr old girls (what about the boys?) For the thousand fricking time 10yr olds don't have to fast. And Never known anyone with worse smelly breath than those with a hangover at work.

Teacup246 · 21/06/2015 09:00

However, I don't think the point of this thread is to your assuage your fears

Agreed

PyjamasLlamas · 21/06/2015 09:03

I would love to know the statistics for how many car crashes were caused by fasting Muslims in the Uk in the last 50yrs.

Teacup246 · 21/06/2015 09:04

I remember working in a surgery department coming in one morning and there had been a party the night before, several of the surgeons stayed overnight in the office because they were too drunk to drive home. The whole office stank of alcohol because of their disgusting smelly breath

They were operating the day after

I would have real concerns about any of these drunk idiots doing any sort of surgery on me or my family

Teacup246 · 21/06/2015 09:06

I would love to know the statistics for how many car crashes were caused by fasting Muslims in the Uk in the last 50yrs

More car crashes will have been caused by drunk driving

PyjamasLlamas · 21/06/2015 09:09

Yep Teacup but let's not let that affect the DailyMail hysteria

LynetteScavo · 21/06/2015 09:13

I think it's normal to be concerned about a surgeons capabilities if your child is being operated on. Is the surgeon too young and inexperienced, too old, too tired, too jolly and not taking the whole thing seriously enough?. The list is endless when you're putting your child's life in someone else's hands.

Hope it all went OK OP. Thanks

sanfairyanne · 21/06/2015 09:24

very wise words lynette

wrt road traffic accidents, i have no idea why this is considered some weird point. google 'ramadan road traffic accidents' and read the many many many articles in muslim countries about the effects of the fasting month on road traffic accidents

www.khaleejtimes.com/mobile/inside.asp?xfile=/data/ramadannews/2015/June/ramadannews_June43.xml&section=ramadannews

this was the first one on my google today

if you have lived in a muslim country you will know there is nothing controversial about the idea

if you live in a predominantly muslim area of the uk, you will also notice a difference in driving - bit more careless, bit more dangerous - especially the evening rush hour before sunset. if you dont live in a predominantly muslim area, you are not going to notice, i suppose. there must be a tiny, even statistically insignificant, increase in rta in the uk caused by fasting, but that can still be noticeable in an individual area

i really dont get how this is controversial Hmm

PyjamasLlamas · 21/06/2015 09:29

Seriously that is some anecdotal BS. I DO live in a Muslim area and er no the drivers are not reckless or careless or faster or anything. So there you go, my anecdote means as much as gours