Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Fasting and ability to work

224 replies

ChipsOnChips · 20/06/2015 07:09

Yesterday DC was booked to have an operation - not massively complex but not minor either. The surgery was scheduled for late afternoon and would have taken some time.

Prior to the surgery the dr visited us and it became apparant they were fasting. I felt very uncomfortable about the op going ahead and very conflicted that I felt uncomfortable.

Was I being unreasonable to be concerned?

OP posts:
WiIdfire · 20/06/2015 08:16

When operating you can ask someone to bring you water if you need, and you can even stop for food if you feel that hunger is affecting you (this is where it is different from religious fasting I guess), but generally people dont. You get so used to it that its not a problem.

sashh · 20/06/2015 08:16

Lots of NHS staff are on a permanent fast during working hours.

anon33 · 20/06/2015 08:17

I would imagine that he works in a whole team and if there was any doubt that he was weak/prone to making mistakes then someone would call him out.

When I had a c/s the obs/gynae helpfully told me that this was the last few hours on her 48 hour shift, of which she hadn't slept a wink. I was rather nervous during that one!

WiIdfire · 20/06/2015 08:19

Interestingly a friend of mine was horrified that the surgeon once left the patient mid-operation to go and have a sandwich - it was an 8 hour procedure. Sometimes you can't win :-) more commonly in the really long procedures though the surgeon and assistant take it in turns to have a break whilst the other one carries on.

Mistigri · 20/06/2015 08:27

I don't think fasting is an issue per se as plenty of people are capable of going many hours without food without negative effects. I'm not a breakfast eater and often get to mid afternoon before remembering to eat. It does not affect my performance at work.

The issue here seems to me to be that if it DOES affect performance then the surgeon may feel inhibited by his religion from doing anything about it (ie eating and drinking). And it may be impossible for colleagues to do anything about it - not just because religion is a touchy subject but also because of the way medicine works where it can be socially/culturally/organizationally difficult for administrators and more junior healthcare staff to intervene if there is a problem with the way a doctor is doing his job.

So no YANBU to be concerned, although in practice it is likely test this doctor has performed surgery while fasting many times before and is fine.

anon33 · 20/06/2015 08:52

^ As a PP pointed out certain professions are not obliged to fast at that time if it is going to affect their performance and they cannot take time off in Ramadan. They can make it up at a different time when the days are much shorter. I would hate to think that a surgeon was under performing and those "under" him felt they could not say anything/bring this issue to attention.

fredfredgeorgejnr · 20/06/2015 08:54

I have a friend who's a doctor, regularly fasts longer than a day, it's not religious fasting, but it's the same result - possibly longer as he won't get up before dawn to eat.

I effectively fast for my job probably 80% of the time (I don't eat until I'm hungry, that's often not until after work) I see no detrimental impact on my ability to work. Now I'm not a surgeon, but I given tat I'm putting my faith in the surgeons and hospital ability to chop me open and rummage around inside, I think I should also include their ability to recognise if they are capable of doing the Op due to hunger - or indeed anything else that can impair their ability.

YABU.

aNoteToFollowSo · 20/06/2015 09:00

I'd be concerned.

He may be fine without food, he may not be. We can't know. But most human beings function better with access to nutritious food and drink.

I certainly would not assume that he is a surgeon, ergo he is acting thoughtfully and responsibly. Sadly it doesnt always work that way.

Mrsjayy · 20/06/2015 09:02

How was it apparent was the poor Dr wilting did he have to have a seat from weakness and starvation poor chap Hmm.

Original poster
ChipsOnChips · 20/06/2015 09:05

mrsjay I've said in a pp that he told my DC.

I forgot of course that on MN the most insignificant detail becomes the most crucial to some posters

OP posts:
londonrach · 20/06/2015 09:09

Not a surgeon but nhs worker and im lucky if i get time to go to the toilet, eat and drink whilst working! Dont think fasting is a problem.... In an ideal world...

Mrsjayy · 20/06/2015 09:16

People who work in hospitals fast all the time though oncall Drs nurses in A &E why is a fasting surgeon such a worry to you he skipped lunch basically fasting muslims do eat

OpalQuartz · 20/06/2015 09:19

If he was having no water from sun up to sun down, then I agree that's not optimum for performing surgery.

Mrsjayy · 20/06/2015 09:25

I think a responsible surgeon would be able to judge if he was fit for work an obviously intelligent muslim who has been fasting for most of his life would not put his patients life in danger, this thread reminds me of a comment i read on here the other day well i wouldnt want to be driving on a road during Ramadan

chaiselounger · 20/06/2015 09:25

I am sure some people can fast, without it affecting their work. I myself can't. As a previous poster said how you could possibly police this/ control this/ review this, is impossible.

Mrsjayy · 20/06/2015 09:29

Wait a minute your son offered him a sweet was your son not having a general anesthetic

Original poster
ChipsOnChips · 20/06/2015 09:29

I'm not sure it is helpful to equate fasting to skipping lunch Confused I regularly skip lunch at work but will have at least had a coffee at 6am and will have a bottle of water on the go even if I dont have time to grab a sandwich.

My understanding of fasting for Ramadan is that there is nothing after about 4:30am so in this case it would have meant no water for almost 12 hours. That being said I didn't question the details of his fasting.

OP posts:
LookingForDave · 20/06/2015 09:31

There's plenty of NHS workers who regularly 'fast' for 8, 10, 12 hours and are stll expected to carry on as normal.

I say 'fast' as it is not really a choice. They are simply too busy to stop and eat or drink.

And yes. After 13 hours of not eating hard work I am absolutely hanging and impaired.

Original poster
ChipsOnChips · 20/06/2015 09:33

Yes msjay one DC was fasting as they were having a general anaesthetic. My other DC was not having a GA and therefore had sweets*

*please do let me know if you need an explanation as to why DC2 was at hospital/why I permitted him sweets/what flavour they were or anything else that you might need clarifying Smile

OP posts:
aNoteToFollowSo · 20/06/2015 09:36

OP, good on you for staying calm and rational in the face of what, to me, seems uncalled for vitriol. MN can be awful at times.

dun1urkin · 20/06/2015 09:37

chips how is your DC? I can remember having a GA and felt really rough and out of it afterwards
being the most 'insignificant' detail most important to this MNetter

Teacup246 · 20/06/2015 09:44

These sorts of threads come up every year Hmm

It is why I choose to not tell anyone at work I am fasting

A different story when they come in with hangovers

noeffingidea · 20/06/2015 09:44

When I worked in the NHS I often wouldn't eat all day. I would drink though. Personally I don't consider the lack of food a problem, I do consider a lack of fluids a problem though, especially in a hot enviroment, so I think you are entitled to be concerned on those grounds.
However, there can be a lot of reasons why someone isn't able to function at 100%. They may have been up all night with a baby. They might have toothache. They might have personal issues. You really don't know, and you just have to trust in that person to do their job properly.
Just to reassure you, that surgeon won't be the only person in the operating theatre and it's unlikely that all the people there will be fasting. If he was unable to carry on or made a mistake it should be noticed. There are procedures and checks in place.

noeffingidea · 20/06/2015 09:45

teacup good point about the hangovers.

Mrsjayy · 20/06/2015 09:51

The op was asked how her son was before she hasnt said