To think TAs don't really aid students' learning

[Bridgeovertheriver]

And as such, why is so much spent on them? (Assisting students with a physical disability excepted obviously.)

Mine aren't teaching, mine are supporting and reinforcing what has been taught in the lesson to help them understand it.

In terms of some students helping them manage being in mainstream school as for some it can be all a bit too much.

Margo - put simply, in any scenario where somebody is asked to do something considerably above their rate of pay and required qualification, there is an inherent unfairness. It is impossible for me to list here how I would change the system, not least because schools vary so much it would doubtless elicit many comments of 'we are already doing this!' which is fantastic, but it isn't national or required.

It is true you don't have to be a teacher, insofar as having a PGCE/BEd is concerned, to teach things. But you do need to know your subject matter!

Quite Maryz!

I thought there was some sort of vocational training?

Correct me if I'm wrong, OP, but my understanding from this thread is that bridge welcomes effective TA intervention, but thinks that's there's evidence that a lot of the intervention doesn't work properly, and that the system needs to change to ensure that it does - better pay, better qualifications. My experience of my son's TA absolutely supports that. She ended up in the wrong classes for him. He loved English classes before she came to help him in them, and his English teacher was his best and most supportive teacher. It really spoilt English for him, and his Maths and Science continued to be poor, because he got no help at all there.

Then we all agree.

I am one of a team of 12 TAs in a large but well-heeled comprehensive.
We work across KS3 and 4 with approximately 30 kids, supporting 3 or 4 different kids on a 1:1 basis in different lessons.

If it wasn't for us, those children would not be able to access a mainstream curriculum. I know that I am effective because the in year assessments, GCSE and end of year exam results prove it.

Oh, absolutely Sally.

It is a great pity that some have interpreted this as, as a PP said, 'wanting children with SEN left' as this is just the opposite - but it what does happen with some systems in place at the present, whereby the child or children are put with the TA and well, that is that. Removing the need for effective differentiation and even assessment. I had one TA who 'scribed' for the girl she was assisting - it wasn't the girls own work, however, so any formative feedback was null.

The entire system needs a rehaul and an analysis. Support staff are vital - as Maryz put eloquently, we don't want a return to the 70s! But the current system of 'TAs' is not workable either, even though individual schools may deploy them well.

scally that just sounds like a shit ta. my dds teacher this year is not as good as her others. it will be year over soon.

id be wanting a change of ta if i were you.

YABVU- I know dozens of children that probably wouldn't even go in each day if it wasn't for their TA.

Removing barriers to learning just as important for some children.

Previous research had shown that in many English schools teaching assistants are not being used in ways that improve pupil outcomes. However, research funded by the EEF demonstrates that when they are well trained and used in structured settings with high-quality support and training, they can boost learning by as much as an extra term.

So to say TAs aren't making a difference is a sweeping statement and is quite ill informed.

My intervention I deliver has a ratio gain of 3+. The children I work with have increased confidence and self esteem. I am very good at my job as are a lot of TAs.

You get good and bad in all jobs. Don't lump us all in together.

I have a couple of TA friends. They work their arses off. They have long days and one in particular is permanently working on a project at home. They both spend their own money on things which they know will benefit their classes on a particular topic. It might only be in the pound shop but they're always thinking of their classes. They earn appalling money for what they do. But then again I think teachers should earn more. For some children, the care shown to them by teachers and TAs both educationally and emotionally is the only real care they're shown.

When I was at school we had no TAs. One teacher per class of 30. Teachers now are so bogged down by paperwork and Government box ticking and whether necessary or not it is eating up into both their teaching day and their own time. Without the support of a TA they just couldn't do it all.

The current system works in plenty of situations. You're just not looking enough. Why have an overhaul when there are plenty of good examples? Not another reorganisation. You can't do more with less.

We're homeschooling now lem. And I don't think she was very good at all. But it shouldn't have been OK for her to just dictate what classes she could help in according to the subjects she felt equipped to cover. If there were a requirement for GCSE passes in all the core subjects this would be less likely to happen. So yes - better qualifications, and much better pay.

That sounds sensible to be Maryz.

Getthe - this isn't a criticism of how hard people work or doubting their dedication to their jobs.

my daughter's writing is illegible. At secondary school without a scribe she will be fucked. How can you say its not her own work????? my dd would spend all of her time trying to spell and write rather than engaging with her subject. Having a ta would remove that barrier.

You still haven't said how you would address this. So I'll ask you directly.

if my child was in your mid ability c
lass with her dyslexia holding her back. How, exactly, would you make the work accessible to her?

New to here, first post, but as a teacher working with children with Besd - behavioural, emmotional and social difficulties - the TAd I have worked with are worth their weight in gold. Every career has people who let the professesion down, but overall I think it's unreasonable to not value what TAs do (for not enough pay imo)

Sally i do agree with that yes. Having been a cover supervisor for a short time having to help a ta with very simple maths did make me

I dont believe I did say that your daughters work wasn't her own; I stated that some TAs who were supposed to be scribing ended up completing the work for the students.

We don't set by ability, by the way.

You still haven't said how you would help my dd

Lol at 'teacher's helper' Us classroom assistants do all that AND teach AND assess AND do a million other things for tuppence a week. My main question though is - how will the old coffee cups manage to find their way from the classroom to the dishwasher without us?

bridge I know, sorry I just went off at a tangent.