To think TAs don't really aid students' learning

[Bridgeovertheriver]

And as such, why is so much spent on them? (Assisting students with a physical disability excepted obviously.)

Absolutely, but in specific links to learning - TAs who work with a child rather than a general support in the classroom, which I agree is invaluable in EY in particular.

Margo - link is above. But if you put teaching assistants aiding performance of pupils into google there are a few articles you can find should you wish to.

won't download,

didn't we have this same argument a few weeks ago on some thread or another.
And the research on that one was discredit discredited?

My previous employer used that research to justify not hiring any TAs after KS1. We're a private school so have classes of 18 max so we just about get away with it. Just about. There are still children who would really benefit from some extra support. But the only ones who have it are those with statements and we can't use their 1 to 1s for much else.

YABU

I'm a TA who works with one boy of 13, a Looked-after child who comes from a very troubled background and suffers from Attachment Disorder. He doesn't trust many adults and has a very low tolerance to frustration and a very defeatist attitude. I sit with him in many classes, but especially those where the subjects demands a higher level of concentration, like maths. Without me there he doesn't try, is easily distracted and won't communicate with his teacher.

His future would be very bleak but my mission (both personally and professionally) is to get him through his school years achieving at least at an average level so he can have some decent options when he leaves school.

The stats would suggest that he's likely to end up under-educated, unemployed and possibly in jail within a few years of leaving school. I would love to see him rise above his horrendous start in life and make something of himself so I sit with him and keep him focused enough to learn. Surely paying me £8 per hour for 20 hrs a week is a small price to prevent one child from a less successful future?

I think from memory, it's based on the fact that the children they work with are very far behind for varying reasons and would never reach the standard of the rest of the class. But they certainly do make a great impact on the individual educational level, even if by the end they are still well below par

Here is another link, which interestingly says the same as some posts here - that TAs are a very valuable resource for the teacher but not necessarily the child.

www.ioe.ac.uk/newsevents/31191.html

As such, I would say some serious thought needs to be put into how TAs can best be used - is it working directly with children, or undertaking administrative and similar tasks?

I know many schools use TAs in an inventive and productive way but in my experience the majority do not and as such this devalues their own role and also is detrimental to pupils' learning and progression.

By assisting the teacher surely she is obviously assisting the pupils? Otherwise the teacher would be in sole charge of 30 4-5 year olds.

Probably not conducive to the learning environment if she has to stop teaching every time one of the little angels threatens to bolt/riot etc

The teachers managed this just fine when I went to school in the 1970s.. Other than assisting children with special needs, what has changed to make them needed now but not then?

www.tes.co.uk/article.aspx?storycode=6400487

You are joking, right? I work in a secondary school, and the teaching assistants in my classes (who, incidentally, are generally quite low paid - do look at the salary scales, there are very few HLTAs out there nowadays) are worth their weight in gold and then some.

The students in my class that they support could not cope without them. My TAs read aloud for those who struggle with English, scribe for those who are slow at writing and processing, help them with spelling, encourage the reluctant ones (who will act up if no-one is constantly keeping an eye) to continue, praise them for their effort and boost their self esteem and generally keep them on-task. If we are doing a longer task they will try to break it down for the students by numbering it on a mini-whiteboard. Some of them will work independently with students on a completely separate activity. And in my absolute most badly behaved group, they are an extra pair of eyes and ears that is vital. Sometimes, they help me come up with new strategies with students, or will give input into my seating plans as they are acutely aware of the class dynamics.

And in addition to that, at least three of them have brought me a cup of tea and some cake when I have been having a bad day!!

And they do all of this with far more patience than I have with some of the most challenging kids in our school.

In summary, YABVVVU.

If a ta is used well then they are invaluable! My ta works with my mat, core and aln pupils, takes small groups for phonics and maths, is well trained and knows what to do!

I've spotted the link now. Thanks.

www.tes.co.uk/article.aspx?storycode=6022071

Ghosty

Who knows! But Dilan William, who I do have respect for, has certainly stated a view consistent with the one I adhered to above - a resource for the teacher, not the child.

I think that there is a problem in that TAs are paid such a paltry amount that it is a matter of luck if they are good and well trained. Many are also given responsibilities way beyond their capabilities, and are not remunerated at all.

Some schools do use TAs in order to tick the 'support' box, without thinking about how their knowledge and skills can be used effectively; this absolves the school from taking any responsibility for the issues the child(ren) are facing. Some schools also do not invest enough in training for the TAs, which can lead to issues such as the TA doing the child's work for them and not fading prompts effectively etc.

I agree with all of that tethers.

I think TA's play an important and valuable role to play, however I do wonder whether they should have at least a C in maths and English as well as a TA qualification.

I am a teacher (not primary) and I know three TA's very well and a number of others less well and tbh I wouldn't want some of them working with my child on either English or maths. One of them is truly excellent with children but her spelling and grammar is appalling. She got E's in English and maths at GCSE - and yet the school she works at has her teaching classes. She makes regular significant errors in literacy and numeracy which imo is just not acceptable in a school environment.

If TA's are to take a larger role then they should at least have a good standard of secondary education.

*TA's have an important and valuable role to play.

YABU- there are good and not so good people in all jobs.

I disagree OP

I don't think it's about the individual. It is about how they are used, and about the amount of financial reward for this. Indeed, many TAs go "above and beyond" the expectations of the job role. It may be uncomfortable to acknowledge that their hard work is actually in some cases not doing any good, but that is what the research unpalatably suggests.

TAs can be a hugely valuable asset. My kids all love the TAs and they help support the kids in ways the teachers simply do not have time to do.

The article also doesn't advocate not using them, rather using them for roles in which they are properly trained. DS2's 1:1 has had a lot of training in techniques to use with him. He's only working towards level 1, in old money, in year 4, as he has severely disordered language and learning difficulties. She's able to keep him on task and working productively with differentiated, structured activities for the best part of a full morning, which is no mean feat. She facilitates his social interactions and helps with his physical care. His needs are such that he would still need a lot of 1:1 in a special school.

DS1 didn't do so well in the same school with full time 1:1. His difficulties are more sensory, social and emotional and he he spent the end of his time in MS highly stressed and hiding from his own class. His mathematical ability was ahead of that of his TA. She was great at working on the soft skills with him, particularly helping him with emotional regulation, but she was out of her depth with the academics. He's now in a (very expensive) independent special school with tiny classes and is taught in very small groups. His class of 4-5 also has a full time TA who is actually trained to degree level.

It really does depend on the TA and how they're used. My DS had a TA because he was behind in Maths and Science. We discovered that she was going with him to English classes where he is actually ahead. She kept asking him to repeat what had just been said, which he found very distracting, as he wanted to hear what was being said subsequently. His English teacher agreed that he didn't need a TA in English at all. We asked if the TA could go to Maths and Science instead, and she said no she couldn't because she didn't do Maths and Science. She then took to escorting him to various other classes (she didn't stay, she just decided to deliver him), which marked him out, and since he was a child already vulnerable to bullying, this was very unhelpful. By the end of term she was chasing him at break and lunchtime and telling him he was her priority. There were various other problems that led to us taking him out and home-schooling, but she didn't help him at all. She made his life far, far more difficult. I'm prepared to believe she meant well, but she didn't have the first clue about how to meet his needs.
I'm sure there are many who do wonders, but an awful lot of care does have to be taken to ensure that they meet the needs of the children to whom they're assigned.

How about they get time to do lesson plans and paid time for training and get paid more? Is that unpalatable a tiny bit?

Should add am an LSA with a 1st class degree in education studies. My spelling is awful but I sit with a dictionary next to me and make sure that I don't screw up.

Late breakfast...what's changed is teachers are not just teachers. We don't just stand at the front, tell the children what to do and then go sit behind a desk ticking and flicking! Today I have helped an injured child, done three rounds of speech therapy, contacted outside agencies, supported a child with a family trauma, produced booklets to support parents with new transitions, put in an order for resources, updated my co-ordinator reports, taught intervention 1-2-1 x 3 times and updated child records. This was all alongside teaching and marking. Teachers in the 70's had a very different life to teachers now and need the support of TAs to do their job effectively.