Game of Thrones - I'm not watching any more

[ReadtheSmallPrint]

It's just gone too far for me. A good book series is ruined for.

Where the Stannis Baratheon storyline can go from here is anyone's guess...

i was very uncomfortable watching the Shireen scene, i still cant really believe he did that

I cannot believe the amount of people announcing "well thats it, i'm not going to watch it any more" - just stop watching it, its ok - you have permission

GRRM has said that he has told the writers on the show where the main players are meant to end up, and some of them are just getting there a 'bit quicker'

stephenking.com/promo/utd_on_tv/letter.html

"Its best to think of that novel and what youre seeing week-to-week on CBS as a case of fraternal twins. Both started in the same creative womb, but you will be able to tell them apart. Or, if youre of a sci-fi bent, think of them as alternate versions of the same reality."

tutorproof Bran is still Beyond the Wall with the Three Eyed Raven and the Children of the Forest. He and Rickon have both been cut from this season because the tv show has pretty much caught up with their respective storylines in the book, so we won't see them again on the tv show until GRRM releases the next book.

MistressChalk I completely understand your reluctance. I also have studied Sade and I have a few books by him and about his life. Thought provoking and grim stuff, not exactly something you drop into casual conversation or recommend as holiday reading to your pals.

Anyway, loving this thread, I don't agree with the OP but I do love a good ASOIAF/GOT discussion .

Agree that Melissandre is starting to grate - also, wonder what Varys is getting up too, seeing as his storyline is another which has taken a small diversion from the books. Surely he's not still waiting for Tyrion to come back from taking a slash in that brothel?

OK, OK, so I've calmed down a bit and had a good read through all the posts. Lots of very good points raised. It pays not to get too over-invested in a series.

No doubt I'll end up watching to the end of the series , but my poor tiny mind can't quite cope with all the plot changes and character 'swaps' that have gone on. I'll be woefully confused if/when the next book is published.

I, personally, would love to see more of Olenna Tyrell in the bokos and TV series. Such a great character.

Yes I just love watching Diana Rigg in that part. Brilliant character and performance.

She has some great lines, especially in her scenes facing off with Tywin and Cersei.

HearCerseiRoar

I think that line, and the motivation behind it, was excellent and really well done, but I think the show is clever in not making Dany too much of a messiah, basically. She clearly has a lot of learning to do regarding how to rule a huge kingdom, which is not one single entity but lots of different factions. I loved how Tyrion basically laid that out to her in the last episode.

CatOfTheForest

The entire Stannis plot seems to hinge on how irresistible and charismatic Melisandre is, and I just.....don't see it. :/

It is suggested here that Shireen's death was planned for the next book and the scene has been brought forward.

www.digitalspy.co.uk/ustv/s151/game-of-thrones/news/a651660/game-of-thrones-showrunner-defends-latest-death-its-awful-but-narratively-justified.html#~pf88qiOhCQzGYS

I am not justifying it - I had this feeling that the storyline was leading to her sacrifice. I thought it was horrific but also feel it reflects the medieval history it is based on. People did sacrifice children and virgins for religions and beliefs. I think we still find death by burning as horrific but in history (and not that long ago) burning was the traditional form of executions for martyrs and witches.

I dunno, while some previous sex and violence scenes in previous series were gratuitous, I think in this series, while horrible, they have been there to show the consequences of unfettered pursuit of power and a brutalised society. Which is what got is about really.
Often war movies and the like only concentrate on mens suffering on the battle field, and ignore what women and children suffer at home.
Sansa is treated as a commodity married to a brute to secure the north- was the marriage going to be anything but abusive? Shireens father is consumed by power and fanaticism - her talk with stannis before sets up that because the dragons both take sides and pursue power at all costs it makes things horrible for everyone, especially the weak. And that is exactly what happens to her.
Obv it's ppls choice to continue to watch or not, but I think they are showing that the consequences of power at all costs and people treated as commodities aren't pretty , and not just for the men killed or injured in battle, but right through the fabricof a ssociety.

I genuinely can't see why this is such a watershed moment for people's sensitivities. I liked Shireen, and she died horribly, but it's not like many, many other characters have died by being tickled with dandelion clocks or baby ducklings.

yes, it was pretty awful, but no worse than those two little boys who were killed by Theon (for example). It's a brutal set of books and programmes. I'd hate for the producers to have to settle for gentling down on plot lines because people keep drawing a line in the sand.

FWIW - the only scene I've ever thought was a bit beyond the pale was the incestuous rape scene by the corpse. Even then I just think back to the horrible torture they showed a glimpse of in 'Wolf Hall' and consider how brutal things were in 'days of yore'.

some previous sex and violence scenes in previous series were gratuitous

I would say this about the Jaime/Cersei scene - that was just strange and nasty, as it didn't fit with who the Jaime character has become, it didn't appear to have any genuine impact on Cersei, and just seemed to be there for unpleasant shock value. I think it's the biggest mistake the GoT creators have made.

What happened between Ramsay and Sansa, on the other hand, was more like a reflection of what awaits someone like Sansa if she's basically sold to someone like Ramsay, and fitted with both their storylines.

fourchetteoff I think my worsts will always be oberyn's death and Theon being flayed, that rape scene was just veyr wtf for me .

Actually, you're right tic - the Theon scene was absolutely drawn out horribleness! Again, it's why I can't work out why the Shireen scene is so very appalling. If you've managed to get that far in the series and get past Theon-torture then you've got a gut of steel!

I agree, the Shireen scene was horrible but there's been much worse. I hope next weeks episode will be good and have some hope in it. And that Sansa kills Ramsey

I forwarded over the Theon bit. Just couldn't watch it.

Also forwarded over the 'interrogation' scenes in Harrenhal. I'd read the equivalent in the book and wasn't prepared to watch it.

Actually I have missed most of these scenes because I can't stand torture and have to leave the room (and with Oberyn's death I just shut my eyes and screamed ).

But I think Shireen is the most shocking because she's a child and was so lovely and bright and there was a lot of emotional investment. There have been more hideous scenes in terms of the actual torture, but not anyone killing their own small child AFAIK. In a way I agree it was shocking because it was not gratuitous – because it was about moral bankruptcy and the horrors of the lust for power.

(Have to say, I was even worse when we used to watch 24. I was hardly ever in the room! DP would yell "Torture's finished!" :o)

I do think though it's a bit wibbly-lipped to say that it all goes too far with killing children. You only have to look at the Greek and Roman myths to find Chronos swallowing his kids, Medea killing her two as an act of revenge (I think?) and Andromeda being chained up as a sacrifice by her father. It's all as old as time.

I watch GoT the day after so I can 2x through the nasty bits. The jerkiness of it provides Benny Hill style light relief. I don't mind some spoilers if they merely warn me when to jump on the FF button.

I found the brothel scenes more troubling than the immolation this week, because it was much more immediate and realistic. I have always found cruelty harder to watch than violence IYSWIM and most of the GoT violence isn't cruel. The fighting pits for example are essentially pragmatic.

As for the sexual violence, I don't enjoy watching it but I do think it attracts an unfair proportion of criticism. When Jaime took Cersei by Joffrey's body he was doing so as her de facto husband, see also Ramsey Bolton. Marital rape doesn't exist as a concept ffs and slavery is a regional variation. It challenges our ideas of the self, by showing that those ideas are entirely social/mutual and not universal. It says "if you deny body autonomy (etc) then this is the logical conclusion".

I don't think the killing your own child thing is unprecedented, or going too far (if in context etc.), but I think it's shocking in a new and different way within the GoT universe.

If you watch Medea it's also horribly, horribly shocking there too, despite being ancient.

What it does, is just reintroduce the "tinge of danger" to watching the TV series when you have already read the books.

If people can die who didn't in the books, in that classic GRRM way, that somehow makes it a bit more worth watching.

This only works if you can manage to stay positive about the way TV drama handles books these days, which I admit can be trying. It does have its definite up-side, though.

The manner of Shireen's death was clearly signposted in both the show and the books. So the shock factor should be mitigated somewhat.

What did surprise me was Stannis' role in it. He's a difficult character, sure, but the way he's been drawn in the books would have me believe that this would be a step too far. it's more credible to me that Selyse and Mel would be the driving force behind the deed.

I wouldn't be surprised if Shireen's death plays out quite differently in the books.

This is where the show goes wrong for me. GRRM has created a universe of psychologically plausible characters. And he (almost) always puts human motivations above cheap plot devices/opportunity for spectacle.

Now that the show has more of a free rein (in the absence of written material), it's failing to honour that. The treatment of Jaime is a case in point. When he raped Cersei last season, that was totally at odds with the complex character emerging in the books. You can't helping thinking Benioff and Weiss just wanted to get a bit of scandalous twincest action in there as it'd been a while.

Their interpretation of the Dorne plot is a disgrace. They're just using the Sandsnakes for some sexy warrior girl action. They've cut all of the interesting Dornish material in the books (inwardly weeping for the loss of Arianne). Now, I get that it's difficult to work out where George is going with the Dorne plot lines based on the books so far, but they can at least pick his brains over it.

I wish they'd stop messing with things they don't understand, basically.

I thought that she would be sacrificed tbh from the trailer for the series
I have rather boringly been hoping for it all season.
It makes me wonder if Stannis is a better option than the Boltons...but I suppose they were in real trouble and Stannis is a true believer. If his God needed a royal sacrifice...

I was unsure that what happened between Cersei and Jamie last season was rape or some very messed up dynamic compounded by death, anger and separation. I was confused by the scene as it made no sense and am still confused by their relationship

BOOK SPOILER BOOK SPOILER BOOK SPOILER

At this point in the books Jaime has pretty much washed his hands of Cersei. He offers her a life together as an out in the open couple and stuff anyone who has a problem with it. She refuses as it would mean confirming the rumours, would cast doubt on Tommen's kingship, and would mean giving up her position/power. He basically says "well fuck you then" and concentrates on his job as head of the kingsguard. He was becoming really interesting as a character and seemed to be working really hard towards repairing a broken kingdom by lasing with the various factions. He ended the siege of Riverrun (although he did threaten to have Emmund's wife and newborn son delivered to him by trebuchet) fairly amicably, charged Brienne with finding the Stark girls, and seemed genuinely concerned for Tommen and wanting to guide him to be a good king.

TV Jaime is not as good.

Never watched it. Never will. Sounds like TV for the brainless.