if you can't afford the children you have you shouldn't have more?

[Lady1nred]

was speaking to a couple I know today, both out of work and living on benifits. They have 3 children and they are very vocal about how awful it is that they barely get enough money to survive. It turn out that she is now pregnant with their 4th child! This was planned and they are delighted?! They use food banks and thir children have every gadget and toy known to man!

When I asked how on earth they will manage with another child she blatantly said the money they recieve will go up and that it is her right to have as many children as she likes?!!

I have 2DC, I would love a 3rd but we would struggle finNcislly so have made the decision not to. I believe benifits should be capped at 2 children, she obviously doesn't agree! If she can't afford to pay for the children she has why should I go without yet pay for hers through my taxes? AIBU?

[HellRunner]

Ooh not popular on mumsnet to criticise benefits! Claiming to be middle class and liberal and buy a goat is the way to go. i will reserve my own opinions as cant be arsed and there are plenty of 'benefit familys' despitr MN protestations.

[Atenco]

Can't be pissed to read, so Oh god, not this again sums it up

But I just have to say, though not denying the possible existence of such people, find it odd that the OP knows such a great deal about all the gadgets the children have.

[morelikeguidelines]

Obvs they are out of order in their thinking, but really what should be done? Take the kids away? Let them starve?

Letting a few people get away with this is the lesser evil imo.

[Lady1nred]

Haha wait a minute, so none of you have ever been pissed off or disagreed with something a friend, yes a friend has said or done?? Because I posted about it on a forum I'm two faced??

mrsD I haven't researched it because I don't need to lol. She has told me many times that they got stuff from the food bank, why would I not believe that?! Perhaps she is lying about that although I'm not sure why she would. She is often telling me that what they get doesn't cover what they need and how skint hey are. If you read my post properly without jumping on the bandwagon you would see my issue is with benefits rising with each child. My wage doesn't rise dependant on how many kids I have and I don't think benefits should either, that's my point. Also I have no problem paying my taxes and benefits system in general, God knows I could loose my job tomorrow and I would be grateful for them, what I wouldn't do in that situation is go on to have more children!

It might smell as fishy as a mermaids bathing suit to you ghostly but it is what it is. It wasn't a post slating people on benifits it was a post about having more children than you can afford and living out with your means. Doesn't mean I don't like her or I'm two faced, she knows what I think about it. I genuinely haven't seen other posts about this on here, I've only looked at a few. But guess thats a lie too haha, better get my email to the editor written huh? Incredible!

[Lady1nred]

Perhaps if everyone is so pissed at me for writing this clearly untrue benifits bashing nonsense we should just leave it at that. Totally didn't expect this kind of ridiculous reaction but speaks volumes in itself!!

[TedAndLola]

no, I certainly wouldn't advocate children being taken away from their parents ... Just that the parents don't get paid to have them when they are not earning!t phew

Okay so the parents ignore that, and have the baby anyway. What do you do once it arrives?

[The5DayChicken]

OP, my very first post to MN was very similar to this one. I got lynched. But within the lynching posts, there were genuinely good points I hadn't considered.

Like, should we be stopping people on benefits from procreating? How would that work? Or do we simply not give more money to families with more than 2 children and allow those children to feel the full weight of an overly stretched household budget? Do we allow families to become poverty stricken when contraception fails and another child comes along? And if we make exceptions for those cases, how do we know that people aren't planning their children but then claiming they didn't?

Incidentally, karma bit me in the arse. I'm now on benefits after a run of really shitty luck and get the rage when judgy twats (like I used to be) try to dictate how I should be living my life.

[Lady1nred]

They live within their means like everyone else? I'm not having more children because it wouldn't make financial sense, we don't earn enough. If I knew my wage would go up if I had another then hell yeah, lock the door and bring it on!

[formerbabe]

There's nothing that can be done to fix this...we can't stop people from having children and we can't let children starve.

I have met plenty of people living on benefits with 2 or 3 kids who then go on to have more safe in the knowledge they will be supported. Its a pisstake.

[The5DayChicken]

It's quite naive of you to suggest that people who aren't on benefits live within their means.

[Lady1nred]

So now I'm a judges twat???!!! I'll say it again my issue isn't with people claiming benifits, it's with people claiming benifits and having children they clearly can't afford!! JesusH it's not difficult, perhaps if they knew they wouldn't get more money the 'mistakes' would happen a little less?! God sake I'm more pissed off with these posts now than I was with my pal I originally posted about .. Think I might start a new thread about that!

[The5DayChicken]

assuming you're not telling me personally how to live my life, no, I didn't call you a judgy twat. But hey, start a thread about your misinterpretation if you really feel the need.

[CatherineU]

Well firstly let me just say that three children doesn't constitute a huge family, not at all, IMO having 4+ is a "brood". And secondly I do know were you're coming from, this couple are absolute piss takers. You could understand if one of them worked full time or they both worked part time but for neither of them to work yet they chose to go on to have even more children is disgraceful.

[MistressMerryWeather]

perhaps if they knew they wouldn't get more money the 'mistakes' would happen a little less

That is actually far from the reality of things.

People would still have more babies but poverty numbers would be much higher.

[SylvaniansAtEase]

I work, I pay tax.

I'm MORE than happy for my tax to pay to help all and any members of our next generation not to grow up in extreme poverty, to try and make things a little more equitable and give the same chances to all rather than punish them all their lives long for the choices their parents made. In fact I wish more of my tax went to do that.

HTH.

[prorsum]

I worked for many years before getting benefits and I have no children. I did not complain about my taxes going to schools, surestart or any childcentric area of government spending. If I had of done I would have been a twat.

I don't think it's a good idea to have children beyond your means but what do you suggest is done OP. I'm genuinely interested.

This couples children will be at the bottom of pile for the rest of their lives, they will do the jobs many MN think their precious little darlings are way, way too good for and you know what, we need people to do those jobs. Those jobs will pay badly, they will live in ghettos just outside big cities because they won't be able to afford to live within them. They will be scorned, and looked down upon.

Be happy with that.

[Signlake]

I'll say it again my issue isn't with people claiming benifits, it's with people claiming benifits and having children they clearly can't afford!!

I agree with you it's not the ideal. I'm in a similar position as you, I don't feel like I could provide the same standard of living if I had more children. Luckily I'm happy with two and my partner is also happy not to have more

However, even if I am paying taxes, I don't have any right to judge other people for living their lives the way they want to. I would hate to live in a society where bigger families were only for the super rich. If the children are well looked after, why should anyone else be bothered?

Unless of course you think it's not fair? It then does turn into a benefits debate because it's back to the "Why should the scrounger on benefits have a bigger car/TV/family than me?"

[SurlyCue]

Yes very good, but what size is their TV? This is vital info.

[The5DayChicken]

OP is going for quantity over quality Surly. They have all the gadgets. All of them.

[TheFairyCaravan]

In your world, OP, hundreds of thousands of people shouldn't have kids. They'd be the ones who claim child tax credits and working tax credits, because surely they should be able to afford their children without them? They'd be all the basic rate taxpayers who claim child benefit, and they'd be the poor unfortunate people who work but have to claim housing benefit because rents are so high!

So, what are we aiming for a country where only the rich and elite can breed?

[BingBong36]

Yanbu it's a disgrace !!!!!

The benefit system is totally unbalanced. If there were no benefits those people would not be having any more.

[SurlyCue]

Ahh. Could i see the checklist? I think i'm missing a few. They'll give me more benefits to buy a PsVita right? Will no-one think of the children?!

[monkeychops06]

I live in a lovely development which also provides social housing. So whilst DH & I have to work to afford to live here there are families that don't have the same responsibility but I quite like that. I am grateful that we have a system that doesn't plunge people into extreme poverty. I like that my neighbours' children have the same comfort as my DS and hopefully it will mean that they will be given the boost to do well in life and not create a perpetual circle of poverty. Although, I can understand why some people would be annoyed by your situation OP. What is the answer though, if the government handed out food vouchers instead of money would that change the opinion of the benefit system?

[MistressMerryWeather]

Go Go Gadget Goat!

[SurlyCue]

The benefit system is totally unbalanced. If there were no benefits those people would not be having any more.

Yeah 'cause a lot of them would be dead