if you can't afford the children you have you shouldn't have more?

[Lady1nred]

was speaking to a couple I know today, both out of work and living on benifits. They have 3 children and they are very vocal about how awful it is that they barely get enough money to survive. It turn out that she is now pregnant with their 4th child! This was planned and they are delighted?! They use food banks and thir children have every gadget and toy known to man!

When I asked how on earth they will manage with another child she blatantly said the money they recieve will go up and that it is her right to have as many children as she likes?!!

I have 2DC, I would love a 3rd but we would struggle finNcislly so have made the decision not to. I believe benifits should be capped at 2 children, she obviously doesn't agree! If she can't afford to pay for the children she has why should I go without yet pay for hers through my taxes? AIBU?

[SurlyCue]

I did spit out my coffee at the idea that the offspring of these people could one day be surgeons. Dear god, get real.

well, you may live in your little bubble of no aspiration but others dont. Dont judge others by your own limits.

[ItsNotAsPerfectAsItSeems]

Womaninsack. My DH grew up in Easterhouse in Glasgow. If you don't know, it's one of the most deprived areas of Europe not just the Uk. It has had many regeneration schemes but 40yrs ago it was utterly grim. His mother was a single mum on benefits. They had holey shoes and little food.
Well I can tell you he is a graduate of both Glasgow and Oxford. He is a lawyer working for an investment bank earning a good 6figure salary. Benefits kept him, sibs and mother alive. Kept him reasonably fed and allowed him to access education.
But I guess he's not a surgeon eh?

[ItsNotAsPerfectAsItSeems]

PP is directly linked to FSM therefore directly linked to household income. It matters not a jot that a family is 2 intelligent professional parents who are hugely supportive of education if their household income qualifies them for FSM. There is no assessment of social need in that respect.

[fiveacres]

Well, my husband had a similar upbringing and went on to study medicine but I don't think it's insulting to point out this is an exception to the rule rather than the rule.

Looked at nationally the statistics do indicate less chance of moving into a high paid profession from some backgrounds.

Less chance doesn't mean no chance.

[The5DayChicken]

Can people from disadvantaged backgrounds not become surgeons Woman?

[EElisavetaOfBelsornia]

Of course it's easier for people from a privileged background to succeed in lucrative careers. As well as contacts and cultural capital, they are less likely to be put off higher education by the prospect of having to pay back exorbitant fees. Another legacy of the Tory government you are so keen on. The bleating of the Lefties is the best hope for those who didn't have the foresight to be born into a family with a trust fund.

[fattymcfatfat]

ok then.

[fattymcfatfat]

if we haven't already got to it then sterilisation is the way forward. to stop people breeding and passing on certain traits and behaviour to their children. and I don't mean "the feckless benefits claimants"

[reni1]

baa baa

[ItsNotAsPerfectAsItSeems]

Such as cases where both parents have gone very p/t to help care for their disabled child. (I know of at least one family on here where this fits, possibly 2) They may have dropped income from 50k to 14k. Thus their children are eligible for FSM. However, that doesn't mean that those children have social needs. They're likely to be well supported when their parents aren't drowning under the strain of coping with the crap thrown at those with a disabled child.

Just to add, even parents who aren't professional or even academically able can still produce bright academically able kids. They can also be perfectly capable of supporting their child's education.

I know there are some feckless people around. But a safe secure benefits system is needed to protect all those thousands who aren't.

[irretating]

Some of you want it both ways- on the one hand suddenly parental background doesn't matter and anyone can achive greatness regardless and on the other we MUST throw endless amounts of money at these people because othrwise thier children won't achoeve greatness...

No, but families do need enough to cover essential needs or children are at greater risk of neglect and various health problems caused by bad diet and poor housing.

[The5DayChicken]

Woman, you need privilege explaining to you. Yes, it's fucking hard to do well when you come from a disadvantaged background. But it's not impossible. And reducing the resources given to large disadvantaged families will make it even worse.

And FYI, a person's intelligence cannot be determined by the actions of their parents. HTH.

[ItsNotAsPerfectAsItSeems]

Fiveacres, I think it's far less likely now than 30 or 40yrs ago. Which is why I think we need to address why that is. Attitudes have changed. My parents were poor too but not like dh's. We grew up in a pit village. My parents were immensely proud. They went through 3 periods of claiming benefits and I vividly remember each time they felt it was important to get a job and get off them as quickly as possible. And tbf. A large amount if benefit claimants still feel exactly like this. But for some, it is a lifestyle choice and we need to tackle the root cause of this. Whilst style up holding the integrity of a system which helps defines us as a decent society.

[fiveacres]

I don't disagree at all perfect

[SurlyCue]

And lets not pretend that being university educated or being a surgeon is the only way to be useful to the economy. There are far more people earning far less than surgeons who are giving back far more.

[NealCaffreysHat]

Its bollocks and its and this new phenomena of people being perfectly ordinary e.g. having a couple of kids or their husband having a job but this making them think they have the right to boast about it, is fucking bizarre.

Totally agree with this. I work,I am a taxpayer not a fucking hero/martyr.

[reni1]

True, MrsDeVere and neal, I think we are now all so used to self-celebration that some of us really need to make ourselves heroes somehow. Extra-points for getting up before 6am on top of paying taxes and bringing up the 2.5 children.

[reni1]

Incidentally, since left wingers "bleat", how do self-righteous taxpayers go? Bark? Moo?

[MistressMerryWeather]

I did spit out my coffee at the idea that the offspring of these people could one day be surgeons.

What a lovely sense of humor you have there, Sack.

What else tickles your funny bone, kicking kittens?

You must have a right old laugh at those NSPCC tv ads.

[fiveacres]

No, of course they don't. It's interesting though and it's something I sometimes idly consider.

Much as it pains me to say it, we do often - not always - turn into our parents, in terms at least of equivalent paying jobs. I suppose that's the logic behind the PP payment, anyway.

God help my DCs; I'm a SAHM!

[ItsNotAsPerfectAsItSeems]

It's a reasonable statement to say that dh's job is of little use. He's a well paid lawyer but he's not defending human rights or anything. Instead he's working for an investment bank. A hideously impoverished upbringing meant he grew up very keen to make money and be in a position of never having to make his kids edit for new shoes when their current ones are too small or busted.

Plenty of people across the spectrum of financial circumstances and social circumstances do jobs that are neither vital nor spectacular.
High aspiration doesn't need to equate to either law or medicine. It can just be a few gcses and a job that pays the bills each month. This is especially true if those kids came from a family with little aspiration. Surely, part of the philosophy of the welfare state is to lift the next generation above and beyond the poverty they grew up in.

[NeedsAsockamnesty]

My daughters reconstruction plastic surgeon was brought up by a single foster mum who later adopted him.

But then again she wasn't subject to the current benefit cap that everybody appears to foget when talking about people having 3+ kids today

[fiveacres]

So he wouldn't have been a plastic surgeon if the benefit cap was in place?

[NeedsAsockamnesty]

Who knows I expect he would,I was just pointing out that there is actually a benefit cap in place already