To leave DD in library whilst I go to work

[LoveandPeaceGonk]

DD is 10.5

I've been a SAHM since she was born. I've managed to find a part-time job 30 minutes drive from where we live (rural location so no jobs locally).

They want me to start in July which is when DD breaks up for 7 weeks.

We're going away for one week and I've booked her in a sports club for another but am struggling with other weeks

There is a really nice library close to where I'll be working. Would I BU to leave her there for one morning/afternoon a week i.e. 3 hours? She's a bookworm so could amuse herself on that plus the computer.

And there's a cafe next door she could pop into. Plus she'd have her phone with her.

What do you think?

Tilder, OP isn't relying on the library staff any more than any other library user does. All library users rely on the staff to make the environment safe and suitable - they would expect the staff to ensure there are no dangerous obstructions, to get rid of undesirables, and to be able to help if they were to get ill or have an accident. OP isn't even expecting that much, given that she would expect her dd to phone her in the event of accident or illness. Given that her daughter is fully entitled to use the library, there is nothing unreasonable in that.

Tis - I'm proposing 3 hours once a week for 4 weeks, not every day

Tidler - I assume your last remark was sarcastic.

Tramps? Lowlifes? Really?

Tramps? Lowlifes? Really?

I completely understand that she is not directly or intentionally relying on the library staff.

I just think there is a difference between a child old enough to be left independently and self reliantly while a parent is at work and this case. She isn't considered old enough to be left independently. If she was, she could stay at home.

I appreciate my view is different to the majority on this thread. I just think that until a child is old enough to be left independent, if you work you provide adequate childcare with adequate supervision.

The op is happy with her choice and I'm sure her daughter will be happy and fine. It's just not a choice I would make.

I completely agree. Her daughter is fully entitled to use the library. It would be interesting to see how the library dealt with it if large numbers of people did this though.

I really can't see why people are adamant she's relying on library staff. She's chosen the library as she enjoys it, it's free from traffic, various weather elements, and yes it has adults available should she need assistance. The same reason anybody uses the library.
If the child wants to leave, call her mum or make any other decision then OP feels she's able to handle this.

I think OP is saying she would be happy to leave her dd at home, she just prefers her to be closer to hand. So she is old enough to be left independently and self-reliantly.

It's probably also a reflection of the differences between the type of work people do. I can leave in an emergency. I couldn't leave because my child was bored or wanted to leave.

oh, once a week? confident, sensible DD? naice area? probably ok, i woudlnt do it because my dd wouldnt be confident of happy to do it and i'd just worry the whole time.

The point though Tidler is that it wouldn't work with a lot of children because they're not avid readers and would be bored spending 3 hours in the library. The staff are totally entitled to object to kids being left there with no intention of them using the library for its proper purpose, but simply because it's a place with other adults around, and said kids then running around, making noise, or leaving the library and worried parents expecting the staff to be able to account for their whereabouts.

But in this case we're talking about a child who will be happy to sit and read and browse amongst the books for one afternoon/morning a week, and won't be causing trouble and having to be hushed constantly by the staff or told off or anything like that. She's there as a normal library user.

Well I was at the library today and asked the question "can a 10 year old stay as long as they like while parents are busy elsewhere" the reply was that they positively encourage it but would suggest that the child has a cheap (his words not mine) mobile so they can get in touch if they need to as library staff don't supervise.

So it would seem all is well after all

I did this all the time at that age, used to demand bus fair off of my Mum and off I went. When my younger brother came along, he came along in the pram. The only issue with that is that people thought I was a teen Mum . I was only twelve.

The thing is, with a child of 10, however grown up and happy to be in the library, how certain can anyone be about how they will feel for half a day left alone?
Many people will leave a child of that age alone at home or somewhere like the library for half an hour. Sometimes even the same child enjoys being left and other times doesn't.
Personally I think half a day at age 10 is too long, whether at home or in a public place. The OP just cannot know what might happen (especially in a,public place) to throw the child out of her comfort zone. However mature and confident the girl is, there is no knowing this. An older child does just need to cope with some of that stuff, but I honestly think 10 is too young to put a child in the position where that could happen over 3 hours or more, which is why the OP doesn't want to leave her at home - she isn't ready for that length of time.
In my mind, this means she isn't ready to be in a public place for so long either, when the only adult available to her is at work. Yes adults expect to leave work for emergencies SU habs sudden illness of a child and employers expect that occasionally. Is it reasonable for an employer to be told that their worker might have to pop out, because that day, she is actually the childcare - so it might not just be for sudden illness, that other childcare such as schools manage until the point when a parent can arrive, but the OP is the only childcare that day. If I was the employer, I would ask or wonder if this child is beyond having childcare now, so that is why the OP has not provided any.....but that is not the case.....this girl usually has childcare, but the OP is choosing not to have it on these days.

It think it is wrong to think it is okay as an employee to need to provide more than emergency care whilst at work (and the kind of help the girl might require whilst in the library is probably the care a proper care-giver could offer if present at that point - not the type that would require a parental summons in an emergency) and I think it is wrong for a 10 year old to be left in that position without access to an individual who really can only be available when there is an emergency.

Yes I want my children to grow in independence. This is being carefully structured and built up, with adequate support in the background. It is led by their needs, not my requirements to work or lack of third are. In this case, I really don't think the support is adequate or that someone working should be providing it - it is a conflict of interests for someone with a child of this age.

For an older child, I think this scenario would be fine. Older ones need to negotiate difficulties and manage longer periods alone. But for a 10 year old to be left for BOTH 3 hours AND with very limited proper support, just seems to ask too much of them. Never mind the library staff etc....I think it places too many demands on the child.

Silly

Sorry you think so.

Chocolate

It all depends on the 10 year old

I work with 10 year olds. Some of them would be fine. some would not

One of my own would have been fine at this age, some would not

Chocolate

It all depends on the 10 year old

I work with 10 year olds. Some of them would be fine. some would not

One of my own would have been fine at this age, one would not

I agree that 10 year olds can be very different. However, I think one thing they have in common, is that new or unusual situations can throw them and be difficult for them, however mature they maybe. A teenager has learned to cope not just with independence but with new situations which suddenly occur too.
It is why early independence is often best given in familiar surroundings with predictable happenings. This is one reason why parents often have their children at home. Whilst everything can't be contolled, there are less external influences. However, in a public place, it isn't possible to control these external influences. Yes, a teenager should have to learn to cope with the unknown in this way.....but is it really fair to put a 10 year old in this situation when an alternative can be found? The OP does have alternatives if she looks for them - and they would seem preferable. It isn't necessarily that this choice would be totally wrong, just that other options would seem significantly better.......and the OP has got time to arrange one of those instead.

One question I would ask the OP, is would she do this if she didn't have to work? Would she choose to take her child to the library for 3 hours and to go off and do something else which she had committed herself to? Would she think this was a good way for her child build independence (ie would the purpose to manage her work commitments or to build independence) and choose to do it without the work situation? If not, if it can be avoided, do so.

I don't accept that there are no other alternatives available for this child. She might not be keen on them and it might be hard or costly to find them - but if they are better for a child of this age, I think the OP should look hard for them before resorting to this. Save it for a couple of years, or by then the OP may feel the DD can stay at home alone....in this interim period, just ensure enough care is provided, rather than a cobbled together solution which isn't great on several levels.

I respect your view

But I don't think all teenagers have learned how to cope with new or unusual situations, purely by reason of their age. Development happens through experience. You give your children enough to push them on a little, with discussion, and a monitoring of their anxiety.

This library is not an uncontrolled space for the OP and her child

ChocolateWombat, I've dealt with fights, seizures, physical and sexual aggression, nosebleeds, fainting, heart attacks, vomiting, drunkeness, disclosures of abuse, chemical leaks and general arsing about. It's part of the job. A quiet 10 year old sitting reading is not going to register on the radar as a problem.

Not all in the same library, I hasten to add, before that gets jumped on as a reason all libraries are unsafe.

I agree that development happens by pushing children on a little at a time and through experience. I think it should be led by what the child needs, not the amount of hours the parent will be at work.

I understand that this library may be a sleepy little cosy place, where few unusual happening occur. I understand that the OP says she can be on the end of the phone and she can come out if she needs to. She feels she is making the situation as controlled as possible, given her circumstances.

However, I think she should recognise a conflict of loyalties - you are either at work and your child has other care for all but extreme emergencies, or you are the care provider in an accessible form.......for this age group. Or your child is old enough to not need care. She cannot be fully available to work and to the child at the same time. She is planning to work, so should look at better alternatives.

I think it was an option worth considering and thinking through. I think that for an older child it could have worked, but that for a younger one, to not recognise that 3 hours is a long time to be in a public place without someone who is truly available (rather than needing to slip away from their contracted work) to meet their needs, is probably just too long. I don't think it is illegal or that any authorities would be interested at all (unless somethig went wrong, when perhaps they would become interested that the adult in charge was actually at work) and I don't think the OP would be immoral to do it either. It just think it would be a poor choice, given the downsides when there are alternatives that could be found.

I would be very interested to know what the OP decides to do in the end - does she decide to go with this plan, or to make alternative arrangements? I hope they both have a great summer.

The thing is, with a child of 10, however grown up and happy to be in the library, how certain can anyone be about how they will feel for half a day left alone?

The child herself has said she's happy about it. If she isn't, she can pick up the phone to her mother, OP has made it clear that in that event she would make other arrangements, and that in fact she has looked into childminding but that it is her dd who doesn't want this. Presumably if this plan falls apart dd will have to go to the childminder.

Chocolate, I'm quite bemused about all the strange and unexpected events you expect to happen in libraries over the course of three hours. If undesirables come in, it's the responsibility of library staff to do something about them; OP has said she is satisfied her dd is not about to go off with any potential abductors or drug pushers; if dd feels ill or has an accident, again it's the responsibility of library staff to help her in just the same way as they would for an adult; if there's a fire dd would phone her mum and would probably go to the café.

Icimoi, I think there are all kinds of things that can throw a 10 year old. It could be an external thing that is happening in the library (someone else doing something, or something happening in the building which is unexpected) or just as likely it could be the child having a sudden feeling which is not directly related to where they are, but to simply being alone without a specific adult to call on - so children often don't like to be left at home for long periods, not because something particular happens, but just because they feel lonely or a bit scared or anxious at a certain point - it isn't easily explainable or pin-down able to the specific location they are in - it is just a feeling they get when they are alone for a long period of time, which shows they don't feel totally happy or confident in that position.
The problem with it is, that it is unpredictable. Confident mature children who will ride their bikes with friends for 3 hours, can feel scared after 20 minutes in the house one day, but be fine for 2 hours another time. A girl who enjoys reading in the library for 1.5 hours while her mum is next door in the supermarket, might feel more anxious just 30 minutes into a 3 hour slot when she knows the mother is at work for 3 hours.....or she might be fine.

So whilst things that happen in the library can be the cause of anxiety, I think it is just a response to being alone that is more likely.....and this can happen at home too, which is why the OP doesn't want to leave her there without adult access.....which is why she wants her nearer to where she is....because she still can't rely on the fact the daughter WILL be fine for 3 hours and knows she might have to return to her......because 3 hours may well be too long for this girl still.....which is why an alternative would be better all round.

Chocolate

The child may experience those feelings with a friend, or another carer. Children learn to be self-reliant through experiencing those feelings and getting through to the other side of them. She can can her mum. Unless her mum's a brain surgeon then I'm sure she can help, even if it's with a few friendly words.

I am uncomfortable with the idea that because this situation serves the needs of the OP to some extent, then somehow you are deeming that it's to the detriment of the child. The OP is trying to balance everything.

Well, as I say, Chocolate, if OP's dd finds that she doesn't like being there, she can tell her mum who has made it clear that she would make alternative arrangements. I know you're concerned about OP being able to leave work, but really that's OP's problem; and if it's a one-off I doubt it would be an issue.