Sharing tables in cafés

[Athenaviolet]

I'm genuinely not sure if IABU here.

I was in a cafe today. It was quite busy. Tbh if I'd known it was going to be busy I'd have gone elsewhere. My reason for going wasn't for the food & drink but for somewhere to sit to look up jobs on my phone, take notes etc. I wanted to sit for a couple of hours and it cost £6 for the privilege which I could do with not spending. There's tension in the house atm so don't feel comfortable there.

After I'd finished my sandwich but was still drinking my juice (in a transparent bottle so was obviously not finished) an older man came over to my table and asked if anyone was using the spare seats. I said no because that was the truth but it made me extremely uncomfortable him sitting next to me. I found it really hard to concentrate and left before I otherwise would have. (I have autistic traits so find 'social' situations difficult) I spent the next hour driving about in the rain.

Was he being unreasonable 'invading' my space? I was in his situation the other day and I just stood and waited for a free table. I think this is the polite thing to do.

Could I have said "please don't sit there while I'm still having my order"?

I'm very uncertain in these sort of social dilemmas. Imo when I'm paying (the extra) for a sit in meal part of what I'm paying for is 'the experience' of a table to sit in peace at. If I was just hungry I'd just go to a drive through.

Anybody can throw their hands up and declare "I'm a special flower, I have autistic traits" - Also reported.

As a matter of interest, eyebags, why do you think a person might be so upset about having to share a sodding cafe table that they leave early and post a thread about it? Could it be they're not "normal"?

Use your imagination

I remember grabbing the only empty table for 4 once and 3 loud people sat down without asking and proceeded to lean over me and shout at each other- I felt the rage that day.

That's a well-known tactic of arseholes in bars and cafes who want to drive you away so they can get another seat for their friend or just find it fun to spoil your day.

That's not what the man who asked the OP if he could sit down did.

Upset is relative, isn't it? I don't like it, I'll change my behaviour to exit the situation as swiftly as possible. Does that qualify as upset? I may not describe it that way but I can see how it could be perceived as such.

Andrew, you said:

Yes Jassy but once you've got a seat you may have to share the table and that doesn't amount to an invasion of your space, does it?

It feels like an invasion of my space to me. I don't think invasion of space is an objective term, because people's personal space and boundaries differ so wildly - as this thread has shown. So yes, it feels invasive to me. I would never do that to another person, and I would remove myself from any situation where it was done to me. Purely and simply, it makes me markedly uncomfortable in a way that commuting, for example, does not.

Jassy - as long as you accept that you can't expect people not to sit on an empty chair at your table by all means call it invasive. But it isn't!

Have you read any of my posts, Andrew?

It isn't to you. It is to me. Invasion of personal space is entirely relative, but I'm happy to accept that it isn't invasive to you.

Op like you i have hidden disabilities.
People sitting down at tables reserving them annoy you?
Some of them maybe like me??
Im unable to queue!
If i am in a cafe its because im unable to walk or stand anymore.

Actually, I do enjoy sharing tables sometimes as opposed to putting up with it.

There are two restaurants I go to on holiday where the food is good and cheap and the owners need to serve as many customers as possible to make it pay for them.

Sometimes I've had exclusive conversations with DH and so have the other people on the table after nodding 'hello', or we've joined in with others on the table if that's the way things were going.

One of the most enjoyable evenings was back in November when we'd been to a fireworks display and the heavens opened at the end. My friend and I ran to a big bar/restaurant and found all the tables bagged. A waiter squeezed us onto a long bench for 10 by nicely but assertively asking the others to budge up.

We found ourselves next to a couple of tourists and we wrote down lots of travel tips for them. They might have been a bit reluctant at first but in the end they were glad two dripping wet and gently steaming women were shoehorned next to them.

It's a social dance that a lot of people understand but I understand that the OP isn't one of those people.

Therefore she should probably avoid those places because it is unreasonable in a crowded cafe not to expect to share space with a polite person.

Have you read any of my posts, Andrew?

Yes, he has, Jassy. He just thinks it's reasonable to tell you not to feel what you do feel and you are wrong

I'm thinking a lot of posters on this thread aren't "normal", and not just the hyper-sensitive ones ...!

I dislike sitting next to people so much so I virtually always pay to go first class on the train so I can sit in a single seat.

Therefore I get this.

However the unwritten cafe etiquette isn't in your favour - if it is full table sharing is de rigeur.

One of the local cafes (hipster london) has a "no laptops/electronic devices on the table" policy over lunchtime and between 4 and 7pm. I understand why they do it but I live locally and often go out to eat alone and would want to sit and surf while I ate my food. My book is also often usually on my iPad. So I don't go there. I go somewhere with a slightly less restrictive policy.

there is also somewhere in the area that charges per minute and the drinks are free…

london.ziferblat.net

It's a social dance that a lot of people understand but I understand that the OP isn't one of those people.

I'm a chatterer, too, limited And I'm fairly sure that neither of us would presume to tell a non-chatterer to suck it up. Social skills are based on consideration for others. Those of us with a good set of skills have to share responsibility for people with social disabilities, because that's what consideration means.

There is an irony to some people's absolute rigid thinking and unwillingness to try to understand the OP's perspective or the poster that insists because a situation isn't invasive them it is therefore not an invasive situation to anyone!

He just thinks it's reasonable to tell you not to feel what you do feel and you are wrong

I do always enjoy that.

I was also wondering how many times I had to labour the point that I recognised it as my issue, not others', etc etc before the repetitive lectures on not expecting people to avoid the table I'm sitting at cease....

I'm sorry but YABU. I'm also not surprised if all the other cafes in your area are closing down if they've previously accommodated people who sit for 4 hours over a cup of tea!

Also, why should anyone wait until you are ready? I recognise that you have reasons for not wanting to share a table but also, there may well be equally pertinent reasons for someone to need that table. Speaking personally, my DH can no longer stand for any length of time. He can't hang around watching spare seats stay unoccupied.

At busy times it is difficult to expect the sort of space you'd prefer to have. I'm afraid that's one of the downsides of using a cafe as a workplace.

there is also somewhere in the area that charges per minute and the drinks are free…

lurkerspeaks At 3 to 5 pence a minute I know some people who would drink themselves to death in that place. That's if two of them hadn't already done it.

I'm almost tempted to recommend it to a speed-drinking friend who lives reasonably locally and could put up with irritating hipsters.

I don't think it would be good for him though

Something that stands out to me (as someone with autistic traits currently awaiting an NHS assessment) is that the man did not actually ask if the OP minded sharing. He asked if anyone was using the spare seats, to which the answer is obviously no.

I'm aware that to many people the obvious question behind the question is "and do you mind if I share" but phrasing the question this way left OP with no easy or gracious way to communicate her discomfort at sharing. He also might have meant "are these seats spare? [unspoken question: may I take them away to add extra seats to my party's table]".

I think it would have been more polite for the man to directly ask "do you mind if I sit here?" but I have noticed that NT people often use a different question than the one they mean and it sometimes makes it harder for the other person to politely refuse their request. One would almost think they were doing it deliberately

lurker surely first class only buys you the seat you're sitting in? Of course it's likely to be less busy but you can't prevent someone from sitting in the seat next to you.

I acknowledge that some people might find sharing personal space really difficult but it doesn't mean they can prevent people from sitting next to them on trains and buses.

clumber that's a really good point but I doubt people do it deliberately.

I don't see anything wrong with someone staying for 2 hours in a cafe. That's what I see most students doing in the cafes (Starbuck and the like) in our town. One cafe, laptop nicely plugged in and here we go.

However, when it is full, yes it is also the rule that you do share your table with someone else.

I think this is one of life's grey areas so I'm sitting on the fence

I know I know, helpful

Something that stands out to me (as someone with autistic traits currently awaiting an NHS assessment) is that the man did not actually ask if the OP minded sharing. He asked if anyone was using the spare seats, to which the answer is obviously no.

Sorry, but how does that work?

As someone who doesn't have autistic traits, afaik, this seems like an entirely logical question.

My understanding of autism or Asperger's is that people with those conditions do not easily understand social nuances and react literally with resultant confusion and distress.

If I'm wrong, I'm happy to be corrected.

But if I'm right, how was he supposed to know that the 'answer was obviously no'? Perhaps he also has autistic traits too.

As a NT person I am used to being asked to consider the needs of people who aren't NT. I will do that because I am not an arsehole. However, I am not a mind reader either.

I would ask if the seat was free and I wouldn't ask any more questions. If the person said she was waiting for a friend, I'd go away.

If she said she didn't want me to sit there because she preferred to be alone I'd say: 'Tough' and sit down.

Although.... I was extent annoyed last week when I went to waitrose and there were no seats and it looked like a lot of food already eaten and empty drinks. However maybe that was partly because a lot of them were enjoying free coffee and spending a long time

eyebags you've already been deleted so take the message that your comments are acceptable. Have reported you again. So bored of MN bullies.

AREN'T accepatable

Well, I wouldn't plonk myself down if she looked distressed or violent.

But otherwise I would.