Sharing tables in cafés

[Athenaviolet]

I'm genuinely not sure if IABU here.

I was in a cafe today. It was quite busy. Tbh if I'd known it was going to be busy I'd have gone elsewhere. My reason for going wasn't for the food & drink but for somewhere to sit to look up jobs on my phone, take notes etc. I wanted to sit for a couple of hours and it cost £6 for the privilege which I could do with not spending. There's tension in the house atm so don't feel comfortable there.

After I'd finished my sandwich but was still drinking my juice (in a transparent bottle so was obviously not finished) an older man came over to my table and asked if anyone was using the spare seats. I said no because that was the truth but it made me extremely uncomfortable him sitting next to me. I found it really hard to concentrate and left before I otherwise would have. (I have autistic traits so find 'social' situations difficult) I spent the next hour driving about in the rain.

Was he being unreasonable 'invading' my space? I was in his situation the other day and I just stood and waited for a free table. I think this is the polite thing to do.

Could I have said "please don't sit there while I'm still having my order"?

I'm very uncertain in these sort of social dilemmas. Imo when I'm paying (the extra) for a sit in meal part of what I'm paying for is 'the experience' of a table to sit in peace at. If I was just hungry I'd just go to a drive through.

If someone has the right to refuse to share why do they need to give their reason for doing so?

because cafes are public spaces where one does not go in the expectation of splendid isolation.

It is up to the cafe owner to decide whether they want to sell their cafe on the basis of the great coffee, high quality food, intimate ambience, fee wifi or whatever else. You may enjoy going to cafes where you share tables. Other people may not. The cafe owner can't discriminate, but they are allowed to decide what kind of business they want to run and what kind of customers they want to attract.

YANBU, not at all for wanting your own space. I've had this happen to me a few times and I've quite openly said I'd prefer that you didn't sit there, I got some dodgy looks but I didn't care. If I don't want some random stranger sitting next to me then they won't end of.

He isn't pushing into her personal space - he is sitting at a table in a public place.
She is preventing him from using a vacant seat.
At most table he will be at least two feet away - that is not close proximity
That attitude is cruel and unkind.

It is not "her" table. As customers they both have an equal right to sit and share a table. Turning what you said around: If one person feels uncomfortable they should not force the other person to move - the polite thing to do would be to move yourself. That is what a kind, sensitive, respectful, considerate person would do. She will not suffer by moving. She should be patient and understand that he is doing nothing wrong and that it is not an intimate situation for him and leave him in peace instead of harassing him.

there are two sides to every story. You prefer the story about the inconsiderate man who dares to sit down next to a woman to drink his coffee and thus is harassing her, even if he is nowhere near her and sitting reading a book.

What is being said is that a woman does not have the right to demand a man be removed from a table provided for customers just because he is a man

Jaleh has not made that argument. She has said that anybody can refuse to share a table for any reason and speculated on the reason why some women in her cafe do not want to share tables.

In sorry if seems cruel and unkind but that's life I'm afraid. I do not want some smelly guy or some weird woman etc sitting down next to me when I'm eating my meal and I don't see why I should have to to be honest.

I've had this happen to me a few times and I've quite openly said I'd prefer that you didn't sit there, I got some dodgy looks but I didn't care. If I don't want some random stranger sitting next to me then they won't end of
Im so glad i don't come across these rude and unfriendly people irl.

As customers they both have an equal right to sit and share a table.

Unless this is not the cafe's policy. In that case the cafe should make customers aware that they might have to wait for a table, or tell them to find a table before buying food. However, they do not have to force customers to share.

In Jaleh's cafe a woman can complain about a man sitting on her table making her feel uncomfortable because he's male and he will be removed, by security if he refuses to move voluntarily. That forced removal will happen because he's male, as otherwise the woman at the table wouldn't have sought his removal.

CatherineU does this apply to public transport too?

Jakeh did make that very argument up thread. And then changed her story when multiple people said it was discriminatory.

If a cafe has a policy that people don't have to share then why would this hypothetical woman have to give a reason? It's not for the cafe to de idea whether her reason is a good one or not.

No, in Jaleh's cafe anybody may refuse to share their table with anybody else. Their reasons for not wanting to share are their own. If somebody insists on sitting at a table when they have been told they are not welcome, then they will be asked to leave.

Decide

Public transport is different - no one would hesitate to share and no one can prevent someone taking a seat.

Cafe etiquette is less clear. I would rather not share through choice in a cafe but wouldn't prevent someone from sitting at my table if they asked.

Soldier she did indeed say that. She's just saying everyone can refuse to share a table to get out of the discrimination issue.
The fact is that the only personal spa e you have a right to is the seat you're sitting on
If the cafe sells you a meal and a drink they can't refuse to allow you to sit and consume it.

Jakeh did make that very argument up thread. And then changed her story when multiple people said it was discriminatory.

No she didn't. Rightly or wrongly people were offended by the reason that she suggested that one of her customers might not want to share with a man, and rightly or wrongly she argued in favour of cultural sensitivity.

However, she never suggested that the same courtesy wouldn't be extended to a man who didn't want to share a table, and she has repeatedly said that it would.

Whether or not you believe that segregation of the sexes for religious reasons should be supported by the wider society, there is no obligation on any cafe owner to force any customers to share tables. (Although I think it would be wrong to continue serving people who you can't seat).

Well I drive so thankfully very rarely need to use public transport. But in the past I've sat in the outside seat as I didn't want a stranger sitting next to me, i was asked once to move my bag by a man much older than me and I refused. There were plenty of other seats so there was no urgent need for him to sit next to me.

CatherineU I think you've just described an exceptionally antisocial and selfish attitude.

I'm not anti social, not in the slightest, I have plenty of friends who I see regularly and I'm always out about doing things with family, I just don't want complete strangers sitting next to me.

Oh, one of those outside seat huggers who thinks their bag needs a seat of its own in the inside.
You sound really unpleasant and antisocial in your attitude.

And you obviously don't know what antisocial means.

Catherine youre of the opinion that youre better than everyone else then? 'Oh no you cant possibly sit next to me when there are plenty of spare seats next to peasants available'.

Antisocial, as in "contrary to the laws and customs of society, in a way that causes annoyance and disapproval in others", not antisocial as in not liking the company of others.