Sharing tables in cafés

[Athenaviolet]

I'm genuinely not sure if IABU here.

I was in a cafe today. It was quite busy. Tbh if I'd known it was going to be busy I'd have gone elsewhere. My reason for going wasn't for the food & drink but for somewhere to sit to look up jobs on my phone, take notes etc. I wanted to sit for a couple of hours and it cost £6 for the privilege which I could do with not spending. There's tension in the house atm so don't feel comfortable there.

After I'd finished my sandwich but was still drinking my juice (in a transparent bottle so was obviously not finished) an older man came over to my table and asked if anyone was using the spare seats. I said no because that was the truth but it made me extremely uncomfortable him sitting next to me. I found it really hard to concentrate and left before I otherwise would have. (I have autistic traits so find 'social' situations difficult) I spent the next hour driving about in the rain.

Was he being unreasonable 'invading' my space? I was in his situation the other day and I just stood and waited for a free table. I think this is the polite thing to do.

Could I have said "please don't sit there while I'm still having my order"?

I'm very uncertain in these sort of social dilemmas. Imo when I'm paying (the extra) for a sit in meal part of what I'm paying for is 'the experience' of a table to sit in peace at. If I was just hungry I'd just go to a drive through.

Suppose that the table hogger sits there for three hours during your busiest period nursing one drink and obstinately complaining every time someone tries to sit at the table, are you still going to say his wishes take precedence?

If the table-hugger is not buying drinks and food, the manager might talk to him. But no we will not force him to share his table. Perhaps he is working so wants the space, perhaps friends are joining him or he plans to order more food later. We are not cafe-police, we don't decide if one customer's wishes take precedence. He got the table first and can use it until he is ready to leave, if he wants it exclusively that is his right as a customer. But really it isn't a problem most customers don't do this.

We are not cafe-police, we don't decide if one customer's wishes take precedence.

Unless that customer is a woman who feels uncomfortable sitting at a table with a man?

OK so in the religion I follow its forbidden to share tables with people of a different race (and who are you to prove otherwise or judge me?). Are you going to be culturally/religiously insensitive to me by not letting me kick someone off 'my' table because they are black??
This is what I mean about not understanding other cultures. Milend the table-sharing issue has nothing to do with a man's skin-colour or race. Many Muslim women follow rules of Islam, which state women mustn't have close contact with men who are not their immediate relatives. This means avoiding close contact with all men (men of all religions/all races including Muslim men)- it doesn't make any difference what his race or skin-colour is, he is male and her religion restricts her from sharing his table. Of course you can't kick somebody off your table because of their race, religion or skin-colour, nobody is saying that. But a strict Muslim lady might say to a male stranger who approaches her 'because of my religion it's unacceptable to me to share my table with a man who is not my close relative. Please would you sit elsewhere, my husband/father/brother will be here soon, they will be angry if they see i have let you sit with me.'
A polite request for the man to be sensitive to her cultural needs.

I'm not saying all Muslim women are this strict or follow this rule! many are not strict at all and are happy share tables with men and socialise with men. But some follow religious rules (and some are forced by family to follow rules). Being a bit sensitive to others' beliefs is something most kind people try to do anyway.

For the love of God.

It is an ANALOGY. No one thinks the table-sharing issue you're talking about is to do with skin colour or race. It's an ANALOGY.

Do you understand?

And also i suppose we should be sensitive to the husband/father/brother will be here soon, they will be angry if they see i have let you sit with me Or maybe we shouldn't pander to angry people's unreasonable demands?

Of course you can't kick somebody off your table because of their race religion or skin colour

But it's OK to kick someone off your table because of their gender. I see.

I don't think I've quite got the hang of this equality stuff.

All prejudices of this kind are a form of ignorance - even if you cannot blame the individual concerned. They should not be passed off as "cultural" - they should be opposed, resisted, marginalised and I hope one day relegated into history

So you are saying all religious beliefs are a form of ignorance and all the people who follow religion are prejudiced? I am not saying you are wrong to feel this way but still i think we should still respect different beliefs and different cultures. Perhaps one day religion will become history as you say, but it hasn't yet, our society in UK is supportive of many different religions and increasingly multicultural. To live happily we need to understand and have more tolerance. Opposing a Muslim lady's religious beliefs about contact with men- in a public cafe while she is trying to enjoy her drink in peace- is unkind and not a gentlemanly thing to do. You put her in a difficult and embarrassing position.

A Muslim woman who doesn't want the risk of close proximity to men can always opt not to go to a cafe that she knows caters for those of all religions and none.

A woman who feels this way and still goes to a cafe in which there is a chance that a man will need to sit near her is the one putting him (potentially) 'in a difficult and embarrassing position'.

And also i suppose we should be sensitive to the husband/father/brother will be here soon, they will be angry if they see i have let you sit with me Or maybe we shouldn't pander to angry people's unreasonable demands?

For the woman's sake it would be wise to.
It is only a chair in a cafe. Why not find another chair and leave her alone?
I'm very glad my cafe has policy about not forcing anyone to share tables and i hope other cafes have this rule too. It allows the individual customer to decide to share or not share, and whatever their reasons for sharing/not sharing they can keep to themselves.

It is only a chair in a cafe. Why not find another chair and leave her alone?

It's not necessarily that easy. The crux of many of the arguments on here has been 'what if a seat next to a woman is the only seat in the cafe?'

It allows the individual customer to decide to share or not share, and whatever their reasons for sharing/not sharing they can keep to themselves
The table isn't anyones to decide if it should be shared or not! The people that are soo bloody sensitive about sharing should not frequent busy coffee shops/cafes and let the rest of us get on with things in peace!

Ignorant prejudice should be relegated whether they have a base in religion or not. The Afrikaners' racial beliefs were, alas, supported by the Dutch Reformed (or Much Deformed) Church over many decades.

To live happily we need to understand and have more tolerance.

Indeed. And that means accepting that not everyone accepts your particular beliefs and prejudices and not expecting everyone to act on them to their detriment. To be sure, the coffee getting cold is not the worst detriment but nobody should be expected to put up with it because of gender, race, religion. orientation, etc., etc.

If a Muslim lady is sitting in your cafe and is shocked to see two men holding hands while patiently waiting for a table - do you expect them to stop?

Just wondering!

mileend maybe all the introverts should stay at home and never use busy cafes then .

meglet
If being an introvert means acting selfishly, not allowing a fellow human being to eat/drink their purchases in comfort at a shared table then yes, they should stay at home.

The table isn't anyones to decide if it should be shared or not!

It is the cafe owner's table.

While you could argue that the cafe owner shouldn't be serving non-takeaway food if there are no tables, customers do not have the right to be served when there are no vacant tables just because there are a few empty chairs.

customers do not have the right to be served when there are no vacant tables just because there are a few empty chairs.

Rubbish. As long as there are seats the cafe can serve you.

or maybe extroverts should learn some sensitivity and not invade others space.

it works both ways. The world shouldn't always revolve around the pushiest most thick skinned members of society.

If being an introvert means acting selfishly, not allowing a fellow human being to eat/drink their purchases in comfort at a shared table then yes, they should stay at home.

A cafe owner can sell the experience of not having to share a table. If that means that they serve fewer customers, that is the choice of the cafe owner.

are we here again?

meglet, it's been said a billion times, but sitting at the other seat at a table with two chairs at it is NOT invading someone's space. Someone's space in a cafe is their chair and a reasonable 'portion' (half) of the table.

'pushiest most thick skinned'. Stop talking rubbish. You just mean 'people who would like to sit down to have their coffee in a PUBLIC cafe.'

Christ I'm glad I've never come across anyone in a cafe who's behaved like the few on here who can't seem to bear the thought of another person coming within half a mile of them.

The crux of many of the arguments on here has been 'what if a seat next to a woman is the only seat in the cafe?
It has a very simple answer: if she is happy to share table with you, you sit down. If she says no, you wait for a vacant seat. Can't understand how anybody could get it wrong really.

The table isn't anyones to decide if it should be shared or not!
If cafe policy says 'sharing tables is not compulsory' then no-one has to share unless they want to, so everyone is happy. I've never been in a cafe where it's compulsory we all share tables. It would feel like school!

If a Muslim lady is sitting in your cafe and is shocked to see two men holding hands while patiently waiting for a table - do you expect them to stop?
Of course men can hold hands (or kiss or cuddle if they like to) They are not doing any harm and it is not my problem if anyone is shocked. Why do you assume a Muslim lady will be shocked seeing gay men holding hands in public? I don't know why you think my cafe is so unusual. It is very normal and friendly. Only rule is customers treat each other respectfully, which includes not forcing onto somebody else's table and not hassling anyone. I think this is the same policy for nearly all cafes!

As long as there are seats the cafe can serve you.

They may serve you. They do not have to serve you. They can say "I am sorry, there are no free tables at the moment."

I've never been to a cafe that's said that.

Christ I'm glad I've never come across anyone in a cafe who's behaved like the few on here who can't seem to bear the thought of another person coming within half a mile of them.

That is fine, but you still don't have any right to be served in a cafe just because there is a free seat at somebody's table.