Sharing tables in cafés

[Athenaviolet]

I'm genuinely not sure if IABU here.

I was in a cafe today. It was quite busy. Tbh if I'd known it was going to be busy I'd have gone elsewhere. My reason for going wasn't for the food & drink but for somewhere to sit to look up jobs on my phone, take notes etc. I wanted to sit for a couple of hours and it cost £6 for the privilege which I could do with not spending. There's tension in the house atm so don't feel comfortable there.

After I'd finished my sandwich but was still drinking my juice (in a transparent bottle so was obviously not finished) an older man came over to my table and asked if anyone was using the spare seats. I said no because that was the truth but it made me extremely uncomfortable him sitting next to me. I found it really hard to concentrate and left before I otherwise would have. (I have autistic traits so find 'social' situations difficult) I spent the next hour driving about in the rain.

Was he being unreasonable 'invading' my space? I was in his situation the other day and I just stood and waited for a free table. I think this is the polite thing to do.

Could I have said "please don't sit there while I'm still having my order"?

I'm very uncertain in these sort of social dilemmas. Imo when I'm paying (the extra) for a sit in meal part of what I'm paying for is 'the experience' of a table to sit in peace at. If I was just hungry I'd just go to a drive through.

And iirc the seats in that little chef were nailed to the floor, so no chair moving malarkey there.

at family meal in Costa or Little Chef.

I have just had a coffee out in a busy town centre. All was relaxed and peaceful, although fairly crowded- none of the angst seem on MN and no one standing for 10 mins holding a tray with coffee going cold.

Mehitabel, I think we should post daily updates on our town centre coffee shop table occupancy experiences .

they pop into a café in-between doing things and when they are hungry (I know this must be shocking revelation to you), rather then sitting on there own in a café all day bagging seats

Who said anything about sitting in a cafe all day? We're talking about arriving half an hour before busiest time (noon) to ensure you get a table. That's sensible forward planning and can easily be fitted into a narrow time-slot between activities! Irrelevant whether both of you arrive together or one gets there first, orders and saves chair for friend. I've yet to meet anyone who insists on sitting on a 'reserved' chair in real-life which is why I'm very skeptical it actually happens

If you get to cafe at busiest time and are not meeting someone already seated, you might (shock horror) have to wait 5-10mins for a table! I fail to see why this is so horrific. In real-life we frequently have to stand up and wait for things. The fact you can SEE an unoccupied chair at another table does not automatically mean you are welcome to join a group of strangers, or that the chair is not being kept for a member of that group.

the occupant is usually a normal human being who doesnt give a fig if someone sits in a spare seat, not some selfish weirdo who is in tears at the prospect of 'having their personal space invadded
There are a multitude of reasons why sharing a stranger's tiny table may not be appropriate or may cause someone distress. Having ASD, social anxiety or cultural restrictions does not make someone a 'selfish weirdo'. Invading someone's personal space because you hate waiting for a free seat... that is selfish and arrogant.

Small tables in coffee shops are not designed for communal use. People do not just sit anywhere. Go to Costa around noon and look around at all the small tables with single occupants (even when people are waiting with trays).

Of course you can tag-onto to someone else's table uninvited, interrupt a private conversation, join a family group by claiming the one empty chair in their midst, or display other socially-inapropriate behaviour like sitting on a reserved chair 'I'll just use it until your friend comes back'. I suspect most people would pity your lack of social awareness and be too polite to tell you to go away, so you might get the seat after all!

oh lilac

Have

I'm in our little local chippy. Very popular in pare seat on their tathe town. I've just seen the group of five on the table next to me offer the spare seat on their table to someone who'd just moved away from the counter with their tray. "Come and sit here - we're going in a few minutes anyway"
He hasn't needed it as a couple at a small table got up anyway so he's moved to leave it free if a party comes in. Everyone's just fitted in and accommodated each other. Not a liar hogging seats to be seen.

I meant very popular with a wide range of people in the town.

Go to Costa around noon and look around at all the small tables with single occupants (even when people are waiting with trays)
ffs.......
NO ONE DOES THIS!!!!!!!!

Losing the will to live now.

Two more couples sharing a table for four. The waitress has just asked if they'd like to move when someone leaves. " Don't worry - we've adapted"

Of course they don't mile
Because most people don't lie and hog seats like rude twats and if they try people ask if they can sit down.

I'm afraid to go out for a coffee now in case LilacWine7's in there, arms spread over the table, pepper spray in hand, and death stare ready for anyone who comes within six feet of her table.

Gosh, I'd never share anyone's table except in an absolute emergency, but then again if someone needed to sit down I would immediately say yes.

How SELFISH and RUDE to tell someone they couldn't sit down if the cafe was full. There are no get-outs - "distress" indeed - it is just plain obnoxious to hog a table. If someone's social anxiety is that bad they would never go in a coffee shop - viz my mother who would have thrown herself under a bus rather than contemplated having a coffee (or done anything) by herself.

M&S Cafe is the classic for us. It is ALWAYS busy, and quite often with people waiting for seats with trays. It is usually elderly people, more often than not in groups smaller than 3, so the bigger tables are normally under occupied. However it normally doesn't take more than a few minutes to get a table, and I will normally wait. Especially if I have two rambunctious smaller children with me, I wouldn't foist them on people and wouldn't feel comfrtable in case people were tutting at their pretty normal behaviour. During one instance of waiting I did have a single person come over to me and say that they had 3 spare seats and would be leaving soon so to feel free to sit. I would have done the same.

If I go with my mum she will go and get a table while I queue. She is in a wheelchair and can't easily access all tables.

I would have no issue with someone asking to share our table, I would rather not sit opposite a stranger at a a small table as it starts feeling awkward re: eye contact and small talk. But next to or whatever at a larger table is fine. Likewise if we were holding a seat, or my mother was for example and someone asked they would be told it was taken, if that person still wanted to perch (surely only the physically infirm can't stand and wait for a few minutes?) while waiting then that's no problem, but I would expect the seat to be given up promptly and graciously when the person returned.

And I see lots of people waiting with trays! Where are these cafes where no-one ever waits?!

I've never, ever seen anyone waiting with a tray, coffee getting cold, when there are empty seats.

Lilac, did you buy anything when you arrived early to reserve seats for your friend? Very rude if you squatted at a table for two without buying anything.

Really? That amazes me.

Brenda what do you class as an 'absolute emergency'?
I don't consider your food going cold an emergency. Nor is having to stand up for 5-10mins until a table becomes free.

Obviously if someone was elderly or unsteady on feet, I'd invite them to sit down. And if someone wants to remove a spare chair to attach it to another table I'd have no problem with it. But if waiting for a friend to join me, the 'unoccupied' chair is not a spare one.
If eating alone I always choose the smallest table. I am not going to share a tiny tray-sized table with a stranger simply because that person is too impatient or lazy to wait for their own table. I'm fortunate enough not to have ASD/anxiety issues... but like many people I would find it awkward and intrusive to eat at a tiny table with a stranger. These tables are designed for solo use or sharing with friends.

Seats in cafes are not the same as seats on public transport. There are no rules that all seats must be in use at busy times, or that everyone must squash up together to let more people sit down. It is inappropriate to insist on sharing a stranger's tiny table just because you can't be bothered to wait for your own. No means no. It is obnoxious and rude to sit down if someone tells you the unoccupied seat is taken. Perhaps their friend is in loo, perhaps the friend is late, or perhaps the friend does not exist and is simply a polite way of saying you are not welcome to join them. There are a multitude of reasons why you may not be welcome.

IMO it is selfish and rude to invade someone's personal space in a cafe. Wait your turn for a table or find somewhere less busy.

If the management place two chairs at the tables of a particular size they intend two customers to be able to use that table. If you can't cope with the possibility that a stranger may sit on the other chair, if you think that table should not be used for two customers, you find somewhere where more space is allowed per customer. That other chair and half the table are not your personal space; they are another customer's personal space if that is the only chair left, or if the only chairs left are all at those smaller tables. Get over yourself.

It's obnoxious and rude to expect to occupy a table for two on your own in a crowded café when people have coffee getting cold.

And did you buy anything when you baggsied a table for 2 half an hour early?

Lilac, did you buy anything when you arrived early to reserve seats for your friend? Very rude if you squatted at a table for two without buying anything

Yes, when I arrive first I always order then find a table. I'll order for friend too if she knows what she wants/doesn't mind it cooling down. There's always option of asking for a takeaway cup with lid to keep drinks hot.

I've never, ever seen anyone waiting with a tray, coffee getting cold, when there are empty seats

I'm very surprised by this and can only assume we visit different types of cafe. Around lunchtime it's the norm see people waiting for tables. As Ninky said, people rarely have to wait long, there's normally a fast turnover rate. If I visit a cafe between 12-1pm I expect to wait for a table.

If there are no spare seats at all of course you wait. When one becomes free you take it. If it's a small table and LilacWine7 is sitting there that's JTB for her.

Our coffee shops must be bigger than yours, or maybe we're more polite and share tables.

Perhaps, Lilac had better not visit our friendly little local chippy then.

As Andrew said, unless someone is physically in the cafe using that seat which has been assigned to that table (and that includes someone who's left it to go to the loo) it's not up to you who sits on it. It is not your personal space.

you find somewhere where more space is allowed per customer

There are no rules about how much 'space' each customer is allowed or how many people must sit at each table. Personal space is subjective. People generally respect others' personal space in cafes and restaurants. 2 chairs does not mean both must be occupied.
Imagine a cafe that gave announcements over intercom e.g. 'all chairs must be occupied. All customers with an unoccupied chair at their table must offer it to a waiting customer and you must not save chairs for friends. No bags or coats to be placed on chairs. Trays must be removed from small tables to make space for strangers to share with you. You may not refuse if a stranger wants to share your table. You are not entitled to personal space. You must all sit close together and utilise every bit of space. Single people are not allowed a table to themselves even if table is the size of their tray.'
Andrew and Mythical clearly you think such announcements would be a good idea? These are the behaviours you seem to be promoting. Yet there are reasons why cafes do not expect people to behave like this or adhere to strict rules about seating. They would not have many customers if they did. Most people are happy to wait their turn rather than impose on others.

I don't mind people sharing my table unless they start trying to bloody talk to me.