Sharing tables in cafés

[Athenaviolet]

I'm genuinely not sure if IABU here.

I was in a cafe today. It was quite busy. Tbh if I'd known it was going to be busy I'd have gone elsewhere. My reason for going wasn't for the food & drink but for somewhere to sit to look up jobs on my phone, take notes etc. I wanted to sit for a couple of hours and it cost £6 for the privilege which I could do with not spending. There's tension in the house atm so don't feel comfortable there.

After I'd finished my sandwich but was still drinking my juice (in a transparent bottle so was obviously not finished) an older man came over to my table and asked if anyone was using the spare seats. I said no because that was the truth but it made me extremely uncomfortable him sitting next to me. I found it really hard to concentrate and left before I otherwise would have. (I have autistic traits so find 'social' situations difficult) I spent the next hour driving about in the rain.

Was he being unreasonable 'invading' my space? I was in his situation the other day and I just stood and waited for a free table. I think this is the polite thing to do.

Could I have said "please don't sit there while I'm still having my order"?

I'm very uncertain in these sort of social dilemmas. Imo when I'm paying (the extra) for a sit in meal part of what I'm paying for is 'the experience' of a table to sit in peace at. If I was just hungry I'd just go to a drive through.

Exactly, Twart if there are two seats someone else has every right to sit in the other unoccupied one.

or being told I'm welcome to have it until their friend returns

Unless you are elderly or very unsteady on your feet, I highly doubt this!

"I'll just sit here until they arrive."
Again... who in real-life sits down on a seat when they've been told it's not free? We're talking about a civilised coffee-shop not a game of musical chairs
I regularly visit busy coffee shops, have often been asked 'is this seat free' and replied 'sorry I'm afraid it's taken' and nobody has ever said 'well I'll just sit here until your friend gets back' (!!) I can imagine DH's reaction if he went to the loo and found a stranger in his seat when he returned
Likewise if I went to buy more drinks and a stranger took my seat despite friend saying seat was taken, I would think the intruder had a screw loose or was very rude/impatient. People in real-life do not sit down uninvited at someone's table when told the seat is not free.

Why the instant urgent need for a seat? Presumably you will not fall over or drop the tray if you have to stand up for 5-10 mins?

Sorry if you doubt it. I can't help that. Admittedly nine times out of ten people admit that the seat is in fact free but I have very occasionally been offered use of it until the person returns during which time I've found another seat becomes free.

I'm not prepared to stand around with a tray while food and drink gets cold if there's a seat I can sit in. As I said, I've not encountered liars or churlish people making that impossible.

I'm not part of their lunch 'clique' so they take chairs from my empty six seater table, with only me sat there, to the neighbouring table which by this time has about 12 people crammed around it

That's really nasty of them. At my old workplace colleagues used to all cluster around one table (think 10+ people squashed round a table designed for 5)
I don't understand why people like to huddle so close... sometimes they'd draw up extra chairs and eat over their laps if no table space. I used to get to canteen late specially to avoid getting trapped between people at this cramped table but if I took my food to another table they objected and all made a point of shuffling up even more to make 'space' so i felt obliged to join them. I just wanted a bit of elbow room to eat, without people spraying crumbs, breathing in my face or flicking their hair over my food! Never found a polite way of explaining this though.

If a seat was unoccupied because someone was in the toilet I'd expect someone to say truthfully that the seat was taken.

If someone says the person is in a queue who H could take some time to move up or they are waiting for someone who might (by your own earlier narrative) be half an hour that seat is unoccupied available until they arrive.

Apologies for typos but I think my meaning is clear. Someone nipping off to the loo means the seat is occupied. If someone hasn't yet sat there it isn't. I'm there first and expect to be able to sit there if necessary until the other person arrives.

that seat is unoccupied available until they arrive
Yes... but unoccupied does not mean free for anyone to use! There's nothing wrong with reserving seats for friends who are joining you or standing in the queue. Part of privilege of getting there early is being able to find a table with enough seats for your party. If someone offers seat to you until friend arrives that's nice of them, but they don't have to do this and it's not your right to take the chair. I imagine it's rather awkward for all 3 when friend arrives and finds their seat is being used by a stranger, who must then stand up again! Unless you plan to drink your coffee and leave within 5 mins, I still think the polite thing to do is stand and wait for a seat that is genuinely free, at a table with adequate room.

As far as I'm concerned it's free if they're not yet sitting in it. I don't find that st all awkward. Earlier you were defending your right to keep a seat for a friend who was joining you half an hour later.

I'm there first and expect to be able to sit there if necessary until the other person arrives

No... the person who got there early and took the table got there first. If they chose a table with 2 chairs because they need both chairs (for companion who hasn't yet arrived or is still in queue) it would be very rude and odd to snatch one of these chairs or sit on it. Chairs are not 'communal' they come as part of a table set-up. Tables (chairs included) are first come first serve, if you are late and want to tag-on to someone's table you need to find a chair that is not reserved for someone at that table.
Also people often get up to rejoin queue and order more drinks which can mean a chair is unoccupied for 15mins or more... does this mean their chair is fair game for you to sit on?

Earlier you were defending your right to keep a seat for a friend who was joining you half an hour later
Yes, I got there early on purpose and chose an appropriate table before it got busy. The chair was part of that table set-up and I reserved it for her for 30mins (with my jacket and bag on it to make it clear it was not spare!)

I never realised that there were so many pitfalls to cafe life! Lilac, if someone had got up to rejoin the queue there would be 2 coats and used plate / cup tho, so it would be obvious there was another 'real' occupant.

Rejoining the queue is a bit of a grey area since the person had the seat first - not something I've come across before when looking for a seat ( much less someone re joining a 15 minute queue) though I suppose it happens.
No you don't reserve the table set up to the exclusion of someone waiting for a seat who's already there - even more so if your friend isn't arriving for half an hour.

Good point, Aunt Olive, that would represent a real occupant not one who hadn't yet arrived. Fair enough - that seat is occupied on an ongoing basis.

Goodness this thread makes cafes sound stressful.

You'd almost pay money not to have to visit one.

Half an hour earlier jeez I'm in and out in half an hour.

Do you just sit there with a drink all that Time?

If I walked in a clocked you on your own, queued for 15 mins and you were still on your own, then I would approach you for the other seat if you said you were waiting for a friend, I'd imagine they would have to 15 mins in a queue too once they eventually arrived, would be long gone by The time your friend turned up queued then came to the table.

There us another possible danger with asking 'is anyone sitting here' with regard to a vacant chair.

I once asked that and got the response 'what does it bloody look like?'

Reserving a seat for someone who won't get there for half an hour and stating your right to the table set up is beyond arrogant.

Lilac, if someone had got up to rejoin the queue there would be 2 coats and used plate / cup tho
Unless staff had cleared away the empty ones.

Reserving a seat for someone who won't get there for half an hour and stating your right to the table set up is beyond arrogant
I disagree. If you make a special effort to get there early when there are tables and chairs free, you're entitled to keep the seats at your table until rest of your party arrives. Also you don't always know if a friend running late will be 5 mins late or half an hour. The stranger wanting to tag-on or take the unoccupied chair also had option of getting to cafe before busiest time.

Unless the staff had cleared them away - you're just looking for all sorts of loopholes and what ifs now. It also presupposes that no one had seen it happen whole they're looking for a seat.

No the other person might not have had the option of getting there earlier. You have a right to occupy your chair not to reserve a table set up and leave people standing who've arrived before your friend.

The stranger wanting to tag-on or take the unoccupied chair also had option of getting to cafe before busiest time

See you keep going on about being early? There is no early. You are not getting there early to bag seats to watch a film that starts at a certain time.

It's cafe were people go anytime of the day, for a snack or lunch. there is no early or late about it

There are actually people out there who have lives and things to do. they pop into a café in-between doing things and when they are hungry (I know this must be shocking revelation to you), rather then sitting on there own in a café all day bagging seats.

Perhaps Lilac is unfamiliar with the concept of a set lunch break.

Am loving this thread. It's really cheered my up. Me thinks Lilac is being devil's advocate sometimes.

I am still wary of asking if there is anyone seated at an empty chair though because of the 'what does it bloody look like' response (rude IMO).

I think the last time I asked I said 'is this chair being used / needed' and focused on the chair rather than the table.

I'd certainly like to know where Lilac is so that I can know that I'm never likely to encounter her.

Or a group of 5 at a 6-seater who are having a family meal
Who's having a family meal in Costa Coffee?? These people (and you Lilac) are looking for a restaurant.

Like numerous other posters have said there are always spare seats available and 9 times out of 10 there are many at a table with just one occupant. And the occupant is usually a normal human being who doesnt give a fig if someone sits in a spare seat, not some selfish weirdo who is in tears at the prospect of 'having their personal space invadded.

Mileend- at family meal in Costa. In the 80s I was once taken to a little chef for a 'birthday treat'!!