Sharing tables in cafés

[Athenaviolet]

I'm genuinely not sure if IABU here.

I was in a cafe today. It was quite busy. Tbh if I'd known it was going to be busy I'd have gone elsewhere. My reason for going wasn't for the food & drink but for somewhere to sit to look up jobs on my phone, take notes etc. I wanted to sit for a couple of hours and it cost £6 for the privilege which I could do with not spending. There's tension in the house atm so don't feel comfortable there.

After I'd finished my sandwich but was still drinking my juice (in a transparent bottle so was obviously not finished) an older man came over to my table and asked if anyone was using the spare seats. I said no because that was the truth but it made me extremely uncomfortable him sitting next to me. I found it really hard to concentrate and left before I otherwise would have. (I have autistic traits so find 'social' situations difficult) I spent the next hour driving about in the rain.

Was he being unreasonable 'invading' my space? I was in his situation the other day and I just stood and waited for a free table. I think this is the polite thing to do.

Could I have said "please don't sit there while I'm still having my order"?

I'm very uncertain in these sort of social dilemmas. Imo when I'm paying (the extra) for a sit in meal part of what I'm paying for is 'the experience' of a table to sit in peace at. If I was just hungry I'd just go to a drive through.

Lilac when you ate your panini stranding up, was it at one of those bar type windows tables?

If not, interested where you stood. As the area at the end if the queue in my local Costa puts you near the loos and the staff area / washing up area both of which make it a high traffic area and not one where you could stand and munch in peace. Wandering into a table area and just standing in amongst the tables also strikes me as unsuitable... (Plus I would probably drop crumbs down someone's neck).

Sorry Mehitabel6 I ahd not read Lilac's last post.

AuntOlive yes I stood at a bar-type thing to eat (ledge for tray, no seats). But if I'm not in hurry I wait for a table. Most big coffee shops have a large open area next to end counter (where you wait for drinks to be made) at busy times there are usually people waiting in this area until a table becomes free. Yes staff come past with clean crockery etc but it seems like designated place to wait for tables and they are not blocking access. I've also seen people waiting by sugar/napkin stations with trays. I've never had to wait more than 5-10 mins for free table. Really puzzled why many posters feel incapable of waiting at all.

Mehitabel it's all very well to assume one of chairs MUST be free so you can sit immediately, but I'm curious to know what you would do if all people with 'unoccupied' chairs said these chairs were taken. You have no way of telling if they are really 'taken' (i.e. friend in queue/loo/late) or if the person is just saying that to prevent you invading their space.
Like you I have never encountered this 'fuss' over tables in RL though IME this is because people politely wait their turn for a free table. Obviously this might be different in different cafes and regions- my observations are based on large city centre chains.

You have no way of telling if they are really 'taken'

Until this thread I didn't even consider that there might really be people around who'd lie about it.

And no way would I ever hang about for up to 10 minutes with a tray of food and drink and it appears I'm not alone in that. I don't recall ever seeing that happen in real life either.

Really puzzled why many posters feel incapable of waiting at all.

We're not incapable of waiting. We just don't have to when there are seats free. You may not like it but we will sit at your table rather than let our coffee go cold. You need to get used to it.

I have never, ever seen a single person with a tray wait for a free table when there are empty seats. That would be beyond daft.

I would just say that I would move as soon as they turned up Lilac-and I would. A spare table would probably turn up in that time anyway.

It makes me to smile to think of all these people standing with trays because there is no seat! It just doesn't happen.

Agreed Mehitabel - not something I've seen either.

Can all the people who don't want to share post the general area they live in so that I can be on guard if I ever visit that locale?

And no way would I ever hang about for up to 10 minutes with a tray of food and drink
Why is standing up for 10minutes so terrible? When you choose to order in a busy cafe you risk having to wait for free seat. If your drink or toastie cools down it's hardly the end of the world. I still don't think the minor inconvenience of waiting justifies crowding someone else or invading personal space.

You may not like it but we will sit at your table rather than let our coffee go cold. You need to get used to it
In theory maybe. But what would you do if everyone said 'sorry this seat's taken, my friend is in toilet/queuing/about to arrive'?? Even if you suspect they are lying you cannot prove it. They are saying the seat is not available for your use so it is not a 'spare' seat. I doubt anybody in RL would be brazen enough to sit down if told the seat is not free. I don't see what option you would have other than wait your turn?

Iliac if there was literally one seat and the other person said it was taken, (and I doubted them) I would prob make up sone excuse about having twisted my ankle and could I just take the weight off of it fir a minute or two. It would then be v churlish to refuse. I would even turn the chair away slightly to mollify them, not stare straight at them, if that would help.

Sorry about my atrocious spelling btw

As I said Lilac I wouldn't stand for 10 minutes with a tray and have never found it necessary or seen others do it. I've never come across liars or people too churlish to allow someone to take an unoccupied seat. Until you came along I didn't know they existed.

Haven't read all the thread. But the other day when it was raining, we were in McDonald's and there was nowhere to sit. We waited with our tray until a table became available. But single middle aged guy got to the table first. He only a tiny expresso cup. At first I was really pissed off, we waited a short time longer but it was clear no one was moving anytime soon. So I took the dc and plonked us down opposite the guy. He was polite and acknowledges us.

Like I said originally I was pissed of that one person with no food trumped us to the table. But I realised whilst sat there, that he was homeless. He was wrapped up but clean, he looked obviously uncomfortable about what he was doing, hogging the seat with his expresso cup empty, and he just kept looking out of the window. Proberbly hoping I wasn't going to tell him to clear off.

So before we left it bought him a meal with a large coffee. So he could wangle more time inside out the rain. Then we left.

Thing is there was another single guy hogging a family table but he had a uniform on, and a news paper spread across the table and empty fries box, I hadn't sat us at that table before as it was too much hassle. He was also still there when we left with families waiting around clutching trays.

I think it's just human nature, to sometimes get wound up about trivial things. I had two hungry dc, and tray of food going cold. Not to mention feeling an idiot just stood about.

I'm afraid if you are hogging a table, then I will sit at it. Especially if I have my dc with me. We have bought food and would like to eat it. If you have bought food eaten it and are just nursing a coffee when it's busy . You should bugger off.

Basic manners at a cafe/restaurant (I think 95% of posters get this, but for the other 5%).

In a service restaurant/cafe, it is odd to ask to share a table. One waits to be seated by a member of staff or, if they are busy, finds a completely empty table (and accepts being moved, if reserved etc).

In a self service cafe, the default is to look for an empty table/bar space. If none available then you try to find the biggest amount of space available (e.g a four person table with one person sitting there) and ask politely but firmly if the seats are taken. If not, one chooses the seat furthest away from the person sitting there to not invade their space. Ultimately though, at busy times, it is perfectly fair to take ANY empty seat.

I had the bizarre experience, while out with the whole family of finding a 6 person table occupied by two women and a tiny baby (on a knee), but they had deliberately spread their coats over the remaining four chairs. This was in a VERY busy cafe. I asked if the seats were taken and they grudgingly said no and then proceeded to glare at the four of us when we sat down. Sorry, but tough. A couple of cakes and a coffee does not buy you unlimited time at a table for six.

I would prob make up sone excuse about having twisted my ankle and could I just take the weight off of it fir a minute or two
fair enough! But wouldn't it be embarrassing if their companion reappeared and you were sitting in their seat?

I've never come across liars or people too churlish to allow someone to take an unoccupied seat
How you would know if you had? It's not unusual for a seat to be empty while someone buys drinks or goes to loo, they could be gone a good 15mins or so if queues are long. As I said in a pp, there are many reasons people might make an excuse and say a spare seat isn't free. Maybe they are genuinely waiting for someone, maybe their companion is held up. Or maybe they have ASD, anxiety issues or a cultural reason for not sharing their small table with you (e.g. many women from Middle Eastern backgrounds are forbidden from sharing tables with male strangers, they will say the seat is 'taken' if a man asks to share). I wouldn't automatically assume someone is churlish, selfish or rude. They got there early to secure a small table, whereas you got there late. IMO if someone says a chair is 'not free' it is simply not free... the only polite response is to take their word for it and wait for one that is free.

Lilac, if that happened I would have to hobble shuffle off to another, by then hopefully vacant, table

Of course I haven't come across liars and churlish people as when I've asked if I can sit at an unoccupied seat I've never had a refusal. It's either been a case if the seat not being taken or being told I'm welcome to have it until their friend returns.

Dear God, Lilac, so little self perception.

I still don't think the minor inconvenience of waiting justifies crowding someone else or invading personal space.

Yes it does, you may not think so but the rest of the world does.

But what would you do if everyone said 'sorry this seat's taken, my friend is in toilet/queuing/about to arrive'??

Time and time again you've been told that people would say, "I'll just sit here until they arrive." Are you reading the replies?

I don't see what option you would have other than wait your turn?

I don't need to wait, I've sat down at your table on the empty seat.

If there is an unoccupied chair at a table it's not your personal space and anyone else can sit on it.

Ultimately though, at busy times, it is perfectly fair to take ANY empty seat

This is the part I disagree with. I'm not disputing it's wrong for single people or small groups to take up large tables. But what about tiny tables that are only big enough to hold one tray? This is a very cramped, intimate space to share with a stranger especially if you're both leaning over it to eat/drink. Or a group of 5 at a 6-seater who are having a family meal or private conversation... IMO it's rude for a single stranger to insist on taking the 6th place at the table, it's intrusive however you try to dress it up.

Of course the sneaky/sensible thing to do is move unoccupied chairs to another table. (Although that might be a bit obvious if you are the only person occupying a six seater table).

But what about tiny tables that are only big enough to hold one tray?

Move your tray off the table maybe?

If the cafe has put 2 chairs at the table it means 2 people can sit at it.

Merry mouse, that's what folks do to me at work canteen. I'm not part of their lunch 'clique' so they take chairs from my empty six seater table, with only me sat there, to the neighbouring table which by this time has about 12 people crammed around it.

It's hard not to feel self conscious smelly in that situation, I would rather have my space invaded!

I hate work canteens - too much politics.