Can we talk about the personal attacks on AIBU?

[taleoftwosatellites]

Inspired by a thread that got deleted earlier today, but not about that thread in particular...

Back when I joined MN (2008) AIBU was a place for robust discussion. People weren't shy to point out when they thought others were being unreasonable.

The difference then, IMO, was that people didn't resort to character assassinations of the OP to make their point.

There was a famous thread in classics where an OP wanted to take his supersoaker to a (non supersoaker) birthday party. EVERYONE responded that she was being unreasonable but she wouldn't accept it. The thread went on forever, here

Here are five responses from the first page of that thread:

"um. i think id say no. soakers are only funny if everybody has them. i think it might all end in tears if only 2 out of the party have them."

"I think it would be very wrong to take it. It it were a water pistol party and everyone were taking them then fine. If it were your DS's party then fine otherwise I'd be bloody pissed off if some kid turned up at my kid's party and soaked everyone."

"no no no no!!!!! you have to talk to your boy and say that you are really sorry but you have changed your mind and it really isn't a good idea at all. trust me-it will end in tears if he takes it."

"(and my DS is 8 too - he's old enough to go to a party and not need to take something with him. "

"I think it may be sensible to leave the super soaker at home. It will end in tears. Your DS will survive without it."

Strong opinions but no personal attacks on the OP.

Contrast with a thread from AIBU of today:

"When you are not so grumpy go round and explain how you feel and they might just switch off the light or even change the bulbs for dimmer ones."

"It's called living around other people. Stop complaining."

"Tell them (nicely, when you're not so grumpy) "

"If you came round and asked me this, I'd have you down as batshit crazy neighbour. "

"It's a household light. Houses have them and people use them. Stop being such a drama queen precious princess"

Does anyone notice the difference in tone? Is it that MN has grown so big that personal attacks just aren't deleted anymore. Or have people stopped reporting them?

I think AIBU is quite useful for getting a perspective you may not have considered before but it's painful trawling through the mud-slinging just to get to the point.

It's almost become the culture to tack a personal attack on to the end of your point of view? AIBU used to be a robust exchange of views, now it's just a goady troll-fest.

What's it all about?

I don't think any of those responses are personal attacks

Sorry, I forgot the "you knob" bit at the end

"stop being such a drama queen precious princess" sounds pretty personal to me

Tchuh, everyone knows you put your PA in a separate post after your main post. Amateurs.

Only precious princess' one would be a possible PA out of your list, I suspect.

Ok Bitoffun, shall we have a chat about it when you're a bit less grumpy then maybe? Hmmm, head tilt

Yeah I don't see any problem with those posts, personally. I don't think I would have got upset if they were directed at me. And certainly nothing to report in any of them.

Yup, people can't articulate a difference of opinion, or why exactly they don't agree with you - so decide just to insult you instead!

Do you see the change though? That's what I'm talking about.

Obviously LOTS of people think it's fine, since that's how AIBU is these days. But it's different for sure you fucking prick

They are not PA.

They would be if they had 'so fuck off' tacked on the end.

What thread? Why do I miss everything!!

YANBU OP

I think if i could be bothered i could easily find a few stronger examples actually. Of the unnecessarily rude answers on fairly innocuous threads i mean.

I think in that thread the OP admitted she was feeling grumpy, so that reference to it was simply following on from that.

Maybe not personal attacks but it does seem like sport in some AIBU threads to pick on the OP. I don't start threads in AIBU anymore for that reason.

I have reported replies along the lines of 'you are a cunt' quite a few times recently, it nearly always ends up with the whole thread being pulled though.

"Yup, people can't articulate a difference of opinion, or why exactly they don't agree with you - so decide just to insult you instead!"

Yes! This! People used to be able to make quite eloquent arguments, now it's just fishwife central over here..I wonder if the MN collective IQ has decreased over the years how's that for a passive aggressive little dig?

Yes I could cherry pick the best ones, but the point was just to sample two threads at random, one old and one new.

If I'd cherry picked the worst attacks I'd have been told I was cherry picking and it wasn't the norm, surely?

If you looked At threads around the time of Super Soaker you'd probably find a good few deletions for PAs, PAs etc, not to mention all the threads that vanished off. chat or were deleted altogether.

SS set its own tone, really.

MN has this weird approach to personal attacks. I remember them once explaining something to the effect that you can't say "you're a stupid idiot" but you can say "You sound stupid and idiotic" or "You're acting in a stupid and idiotic way". I suppose the difference is that the acceptable versions imply you're only temporarily stupid whereas the unacceptable version implies it's permanent, but I must say all three seem like personal attacks to me.

I used to post in AIBU to get a genuine view of things but I rarely bother anymore because lost of posters just lurk waiting for someone to have a go at. So it's hard to separate the actual viewpoints from the genuine bile..

YANBU.

The other day in a bored moment I did an Advanced Search for threads I'd started in AIBU. There aren't many given how long I've been here (and I did work out that 90% of the time I was, in hindsight, unreasonable) but I was really struck by how nice and supportive people were a few years ago, and how the tone has changed over the years. It went clearly from calm, patient advice (even when I was being a fool) to words to the effect of "you sound unhinged" - and I haven't changed, particularly. My level of reasonableness hasn't changed.

Apart from the 'precious princess' post, none of your personal attack examples really stand up. Personally, I wouldn't have been fussed by any of them...but then I don't mind if someone calls me a knob or a precious princess on the internet. I'm quite thick skinned I suppose.

I'd find the examples you gave upsetting but I guess most posters are a bit more robust!

Sometimes I post in here about an occurrence or read a thread where OP does similar and everyone's response is so focused on pulling apart a particular part of the story (usually an unimportant part or something said in jest/a thought that wasn't acted upon at all) that I just don't understand what happened or how it happened.

The thread today, I do think people were mean and I do regularly see it but Ido think OP was over reacting.

I don't know about the past, I'm two years in but it's definitely hArdened me being on here and helped me construct a good argument

There are also a few regulars who lie in wait, just to nit pick a post.
Teasing them as they go on and on...

I used to enjoy looking at Mumsnet, but now only come on maybe once a week now, once I have read the major news sites etc. there is some extreme nastiness on here, and I don't really have an interest in people throwing vile insults at each other. And it is generally the same people who are doing it. One disagrees with an OP then the rest of the hardcore turn up, twisting every word the op says, then attacking anyone else who may agree withe op.