Pro-lifers - what would you do? *trigger warning*

[catcuriosity]

Not a thread about a thread, but obviously there have been a number of discussions on whether blanket bans on abortion are appropriate in this day and age, and a number of people both on and off line have come out in support of them.

I am just curious as to what a pro-lifer would do in this situation, and apologies if this is triggering to anyone.

Scan at 18 weeks reveals part of the baby's brain is damaged and that has impacted the normal development, including deformaties to the limbs and spine, which has a huge scoliosis. The bladder is also very enlarged, suggesting the baby cannot empty it itself, which could ultimately result in the bladder exploding.
More tests reveal that the brain damage has left the baby paralysed, and it would be unable to take its first breath after birth and would therefore die straight away, assuming it made it to term, which was below 50% liklihood.
The paralysis also meant there would be no fetal movement, and therefore no warning signs if the baby died in the womb. If that happened, there is an increased chance of infection (and risk to the mother's life) and also a high chance of no future pregnancies if infection left lasting damage.

And most importantly, doctors think baby's nervous system doesn't develop until 20-24 weeks, and therefore at 18 weeks, the baby can't feel any pain associated with the issues. After 24 weeks, the baby will be in constant chronic pain.

So, do you terminate or carry the pregnancy on?

I terminated for medical reasons three weeks ago. I was 16 weeks and had to make the most painful decision so my daughter would not feel any pain. My thoughts are with you OP. It is one of the worst situations you could ever be faced with and I don't think anyone who has been in that situation could say what they would do as they have no inkling of the situation until someone is actually in it. This isn't what you asked but my thoughts are with you at this awful time.

I am a "pro-lifer" and this (something similar) has been my reality. Before all of this, I knew that I would never have a termination for fetal reasons and would only ever have one to save my own life potentially.

From the 12 week scan, we knew my baby was very unwell and was unlikely to make it to term and was very unlikely to survive if she did.

I chose to carry on my pregnancy. I believe that the best place for her life was to be kept safe and warm in my womb. It was not for me to decide to end her life.

I got weekly fetal viability ultrasounds to see if she was still alive. When her heart stopped beating at 5 months, labour was induced. The care from the fetal medicine department, even when we were continuing a pregnancy that we knew was going to end in a stillbirth, was exemplary.

Oh also my OH's Irish Catholic mother completely understood and supported the decision we had to make.

I am so sorry you're in this position, OP

I think it's like every other situation in life OP. Some people will surprise you with their compassion and insight, will pray for you (and with you, if you like) and hold your hand through it. Others will try and throw their weight around, get the priest round, potentially be really horrible. Others will feel that you're doing a terrible thing but will have the sense to keep their mouths shut and just put a little bit of distance between you for a while.

The weird thing is, you can't tell who will do what till you're in the situation.

And of course, it's no-ones decision but yours and DH's.

I'm sorry this has happened

cat, I've crossposted and see that this is also your reality and I am very sorry about that. It is a terrible situation to be in and you have my real sympathy, whatever you choose to do.

So so sorry that you and your dh have to go through this and I really hope his family doesn't make it any harder for you.
Fwiw, I was anti abortion until I got pregnant, had complications and realised should baby be born I wouldn't want his life saving at any cost, I then had to decide what id do if I had to make a decision prior to birth and realised its not a decision you can make in advance

So sorry op. You and DH must do what's best for you and your baby. No one else matters right now xxx

I'm pro life but believe that there should be exemption for medical reasons. I'm so sorry you are having to face this decision.

terrible situation OP, I hope that you and DH find the strength to get through this together.
Just do what you both feel is right, no one should judge you for making the decision for your family. I too hope your DH's family can put any views they have to one side and realise that this is a situation that requires nothing but their support for you, what ever you chose.

Will be thinking of you and wishing you luck and love

Really appreciate all the lovely messages of support, you are all very kind.

I don't want this to get goady, but I am still genuinely interested in hearing 'the other side' if only to understand a bit more something that I have no experience of, and to equip myself with how to deal with people saying the same to me in RL

I think (hope) you will find that any pro lifers in your family will moderate their stance when faced with a real situation affecting someone they know and love. Generally it's easier to "judge" in hypothetical cases, or those involving strangers.

I'm sorry you are facing this

Oh catcuriosity I'm so sorry that this is happening to you.

All I will say to you is to do what you and your partner want to do, not what you THINK you should do, based on what other people think - family or otherwise.

I know what I would want to do, but as I am not in that situation I can't really comment.

Good luck, my thoughts are with you

Very sorry op, don't think words can express what u r going thru. I've friend who went thru pregnancy in somewhat similar circs. Their baby died after birth , not long after. I think they did appreciate having a few hrs with the baby but the whole experience was extremely difficult. I've friend who terminated in again somewhat similar circs. They told family they'd lost baby not because of them being anti abortion but because they couldn't face the well meaning efforts to help and what they felt would be the constant discussing of it.

I've friend who terminates cos the time wasn't right.didn't tell too many of family.

All of above were happy with their decision no matter how difficult at time.

but it is worth remembering whatever decision you take is yours and you only have to share it with whoever you want.

best wishes.

I'm so so sorry to hear your story op. I am in Ireland and stories similar to yours have had a reasonable amount of media coverage in recent times. I think most people in Ireland find it pretty horrifying that Irish women in your situation must travel to get appropriate care.
I am pro-life, but the abortion debate in Ireland (and the existing constitution) are complicated. I think most people in Ireland would be uncomfortable with freely available abortion to term, while equally most people would support abortion in the circumstances you describe. I would be suprised if your oh's family were anything other than sympathetic. Certainly don't assume this will be the case because they are Irish.

So sorry you are having to go through this catcuriosity, my heart goes out to you

I am so so sorry.

I would terminate, but I am not pro-life, so that does not help. What I will say is that in circumstances like this (and many other circumstances), your personal decisions have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO with your DH's family. Nothing at all. So if you suspect for a second that they would be crass and hideous enough to have even the whisker of an opinion on what you 'should' be doing in this situation, that is plenty enough reason to tell them that you have sadly lost the baby.

It sounds from your previous post that you have already told some (extremely crass) people - however given the situation you describe it is still not at all unreasonable that your update to them would also be that the baby sadly passed away.

I think a useful thought is - it is a parent's instinct to protect their child. There is not terminating. And then, beyond that, there is protecting your baby from pain and suffering in these most extreme circumstances, where at the end of such suffering there can only be one outcome anyway.

Once again, I'm really sorry.

I am pro choice but have not been in the position of needing an abortion. I think I would take a harder line with myself if I did need an abortion, along the lines of pro life. I did not have all the antenatal tests available (eg I didn't have Downs test) as I would not have terminated unless essential. I do consider your case to be essential.

I think you need to come at this to pro lifers from the angle of the risk to your health. Death from infection and/or internal damage meaning no further pregnancies. I think you need to tell them it's essential. It's not like you are saying that the baby is not perfect or something like that.

I am very sorry you face this and you must be a really selfless person to be considering the feelings of others right now.

So sorry Cat! I am more towards the pro-life end of the scale and think if the baby or mother is in physical or mental danger then a termination is reasonable.

I hope your family can support you no matter what their personal feelings are. I think its an incredibly hard and selfless / loving decision not to carry on with your pregnancy. We have Irish family and I think they would support me for your reason's - you might find yourselves overrun by food though, they tend to cook / feed you in hard times xxx

Please find some external support for both of you and again so sorry you have to face this.

OP you and your DH are very much in my thoughts at this awful time.

Our first DD was stillborn at 32 weeks and DH and I then had to make the decision to end the next pregnancy for medical reasons at 13 weeks.

The way we dealt with the "pro-lifers" in the family (and we had one particularly frothing one) was to tell them that whilst we respected their beliefs, we had made the decisions we had in the best interests of our child and that we were not prepared to discuss it further. I also told them that I hoped that they would not be so insensitive to use the death of our child to make a moral point.

It seemed to shut them up.

What a horrible situation.

You shouldn't have to defend yourself to anyone at all.

What anyone else would do in the same situation is completely irrelevant & you should just be able to tell them that.

Well, I'm pro-choice so whatever my opinions are about abortion for me and my body, they are completely irrelevant. I believe that it's your body and therefore your choice.

IM PROLIFE, this situation sounds terrible. It is very very complicated but if it was me in that position I would not want my child to suffer but on the other hand I could never live with the guilty of ending my baby's life.

If it was to be exactly as you said and no glimmer of hope (as doctors as sometimes overestimate) then it sounds reasonable to terminate although I would never get over it ever.

"although I would never get over it ever."

And doubtless OP never will.