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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Pro-lifers - what would you do? *trigger warning*

329 replies

catcuriosity · 26/05/2015 14:19

Not a thread about a thread, but obviously there have been a number of discussions on whether blanket bans on abortion are appropriate in this day and age, and a number of people both on and off line have come out in support of them.

I am just curious as to what a pro-lifer would do in this situation, and apologies if this is triggering to anyone.

Scan at 18 weeks reveals part of the baby's brain is damaged and that has impacted the normal development, including deformaties to the limbs and spine, which has a huge scoliosis. The bladder is also very enlarged, suggesting the baby cannot empty it itself, which could ultimately result in the bladder exploding.
More tests reveal that the brain damage has left the baby paralysed, and it would be unable to take its first breath after birth and would therefore die straight away, assuming it made it to term, which was below 50% liklihood.
The paralysis also meant there would be no fetal movement, and therefore no warning signs if the baby died in the womb. If that happened, there is an increased chance of infection (and risk to the mother's life) and also a high chance of no future pregnancies if infection left lasting damage.

And most importantly, doctors think baby's nervous system doesn't develop until 20-24 weeks, and therefore at 18 weeks, the baby can't feel any pain associated with the issues. After 24 weeks, the baby will be in constant chronic pain.

So, do you terminate or carry the pregnancy on?

OP posts:
TheBabyFacedAssassin · 27/05/2015 13:35

I was so shocked when I read the suggestion of the Doppler.
I have been in the position where I had no other option but to wait until my baby died in utero and there is no way in hell I would have been emotionally able to listen for the heartbeat every day waiting to not hear anything. As it happened my waters went which was what alerted me to the fact that my dd's heart had stopped, and when I delivered her it became clear that her heart had not been beating for a couple of days - you can take from that what you want.

bumbleymummy · 27/05/2015 14:05

From reading her post, I don't think she meant any offence or harm by it. It was just a suggestion to potentially overcome one of the issues that had been mentioned.

Vivacia · 27/05/2015 14:06

Flowers TBFA

What people can endure.

PenguinsandtheTantrumofDoom · 27/05/2015 14:11

TBFA - We have talked on other threads. I am so sorry what you went through. And what you were put through by the laws of NI. Flowers

Justusemyname · 27/05/2015 14:14

I think it is an incredibly brave decision to terminate.

I refused too. I wanted my baby even if he only lived an hour. I wanted to give him the chance. I didn't want to decide to kill my baby, as that was how I saw it in my pregnant hormonal state. I decided to leave it to God.

I'm so glad I did. The doctors were completely wrong and that baby is now nine and sat next to me eating a lolly I made.

Justusemyname · 27/05/2015 14:15

I hope I don't regret posting that Confused.

TheBabyFacedAssassin · 27/05/2015 14:22

Thanks Vivacia & Penguins.

As I mentioned upthread I had to wait 15 weeks between the incompatible with life diagnosis and my dd's stillbirth. It is not a torture I would wish on my worst enemy. I had scans every fortnight to monitor whether her heart was still beating. The fact that the scans weren't more frequent gives me the impression that they weren't that worried about me getting an infection.

fermerswife · 27/05/2015 14:29

I haven't read the entire thread but I just want to say to OP that I am so very sorry that you and your DP are going through this. I'm also glad that you have made a decision that is what is best for you and your baby.

If faced with your awful decision I have no doubt that I would do the same.

As for your relatives, please try not to worry about them or what they think - all that really matters is you and your partner. Unless they have been in your situation they can never fully understand what a difficult choice you've had to make and if they judge you for that then they're really not worth the worry - I know that's easy to say but it's true.

Thinking of you.

TheAssassinsGuild · 27/05/2015 14:43

OP - I am so dreadfully sorry that you, your baby and your DH are in this situation. My heart goes out to you.

I tend towards the pro-life end of the spectrum, although I am not an absolute pro-lifer. If I was faced with your set of circumstances, I would terminate the pregnancy. I would do it for my baby's sake and for my sake. To me, as an outsider and without any of the emotional investment, it feels like as clear a case for termination as there could possibly be: incompatible with life, suffering both in utero and when born, risk to you and risk to future pregnancies. Waiting for my child to die, whether that was in utero, or at point of birth, would drive me to insanity.

I am so so sorry. XXXXX

Koalafications · 27/05/2015 14:51

I'm so sorry to read about your situation, OP. Flowers

elliejjtiny · 27/05/2015 15:14

I'm so sorry about your baby. I'm another poster who wouldn't choose an abortion myself unless in extreme circumstances but think that women should have a right to choose. In your circumstances I'd terminate, no question. My MIL is very pro life and she would have had a termination in your situation too, I'm sure of it.

I would recommend that you think carefully about how you tell people (I'm sure you will anyway) and I'd like to share with you my very different circumstances when I had an in utero diagnosis for ds4.

At my 20 week scan we found out that ds4 had a cleft lip and probably a cleft palate as well. We talked to specialists, we had a 4d scan and thanks to modern technology we had a really good idea of what to expect. After some initial tears we reached a state of acceptance. We understood what was happening and we were ready to deal with the operations, feeding difficulties, hearing impairment etc. We told our older dc and we were looking forward to meeting our baby. We displayed the scan photo proudly in our living room. This was our baby and to us he was beautiful. When we started to tell the grandparents, friends etc we got some mixed reactions. Some people were supportive. Some people gave us (unhelpful) advice. Lots of people patted me on the arm and said that they were sure the drs were wrong. It was difficult and so many times I had to say to people that we know he has a cleft lip, he will definitely have these problems. So many people said they thought someone should come and quickly sew his top lip up in the delivery room so that nobody would know he had a cleft lip (His lip was repaired aged 6 months). Some people are still shocked that we have photos of our son with his lip unrepaired on the wall, they think we should hide the photos and pretend it never happened.

Maybe I just know some insensitive people but in my experience there will always be someone who will tell you that their cousin's hairdresser's mum's sister's baby was diagnosed with the exact same condition but the drs were wrong and the baby is now a 6ft 2in rugby player (these miracles never seem to happen to short people!)

I really hope you are able to birth your baby surrounded by lots of love and support.

AnUtterIdiot · 27/05/2015 15:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Justusemyname · 27/05/2015 16:18

Ellie, was your comment aimed at me?

oP, if I've offended you then I apologise to you.

chippednailvarnish · 27/05/2015 16:27

Justusemyname I'm not sure exactly what you were trying to achieve by your original post.
I fail to see how talking about doctors being wrong ten years ago helps the OP.

bumbleymummy · 27/05/2015 16:32

That's a bit unfair chipped. Isn't she just as entitled to share her experience as others?

WanderingAboutRandomly · 27/05/2015 17:01

The thing is that the OP is having a termination and wasn't asking for advice on whether or not she should go ahead with it. She was just trying to understand the views of posters who are pro-life to help her with dealing with her DHs family.

I think the best advice has been that she shouldn't mention it to them.

Justusemyname · 27/05/2015 17:04

I was sharing my experience of having to decide whether to have a termination or not. Ffs, stuff like this makes me feel even more shit about the fact I have such few real life friends I need virtual ones. Seriously wondering why I bother.

UmiSays · 27/05/2015 17:15

cat, I am so sorry that you and your DH are facing such a heartbreaking situation. Sending you so much love and strength x

I am very much pro choice, but just wanted to say that your decision is for you and your husband only. You do not have to tell anybody, including his family, about the ins and outs. Not because you are ashamed or whatever...but because this is an extremely difficult and personal situation, and is yours and yours only to decide on and deal with. You do not need (or deserve) judgement from them or anybody at this time. Do what YOU feel is right for you and your baby x

WanderingAboutRandomly · 27/05/2015 17:17

Sorry Just I didn't mean to upset you. Thanks Abortion for whatever reason is just such an emotive subject. I was thinking that it might be upsetting for the OP to read about cases where the Doctors were wrong considering that she has already decided to have an abortion.

Justusemyname · 27/05/2015 17:26

Wandering Flowers. You didn't upset me.. Chipped did that all by herself.

chippednailvarnish · 27/05/2015 17:30

Sorry Just but as I said I can't understand how what you posted either answers the OPs original request or adds any comfort to her already difficult decision. Feel free to pm me if you wish to discuss this further, rather than derailing a so far supportive thread with minor arguments.

Justusemyname · 27/05/2015 17:32

I was moved to post as I felt I understood the dilemma of whether to terminate or not. That's all. Minor for you, maybe.

OP, apologies again to you. I won't post again on here

LucyBabs · 27/05/2015 18:16

op I have been through a similar situation its bloody awful..sending you strength for the next part of your journey x

As an aside. I find it so bizarre that anyone thinks their opinion on what I do with my body matters. Its none of your business. If you care so much about babies go and help the ones who are already born, living in poverty and who are being abused.
Its funny how you dont see the forced birth groups campaigning for children's rights. They only seem to be bothered about foetuses Confused

bumbleymummy · 27/05/2015 18:18

Not true Lucy - plenty of people are involved with both.

LucyBabs · 27/05/2015 18:38

Really bumbly not where I am from. They are mostly bible worshiping men who want to keep women in their place