Pro-lifers - what would you do? *trigger warning*

[catcuriosity]

Not a thread about a thread, but obviously there have been a number of discussions on whether blanket bans on abortion are appropriate in this day and age, and a number of people both on and off line have come out in support of them.

I am just curious as to what a pro-lifer would do in this situation, and apologies if this is triggering to anyone.

Scan at 18 weeks reveals part of the baby's brain is damaged and that has impacted the normal development, including deformaties to the limbs and spine, which has a huge scoliosis. The bladder is also very enlarged, suggesting the baby cannot empty it itself, which could ultimately result in the bladder exploding.
More tests reveal that the brain damage has left the baby paralysed, and it would be unable to take its first breath after birth and would therefore die straight away, assuming it made it to term, which was below 50% liklihood.
The paralysis also meant there would be no fetal movement, and therefore no warning signs if the baby died in the womb. If that happened, there is an increased chance of infection (and risk to the mother's life) and also a high chance of no future pregnancies if infection left lasting damage.

And most importantly, doctors think baby's nervous system doesn't develop until 20-24 weeks, and therefore at 18 weeks, the baby can't feel any pain associated with the issues. After 24 weeks, the baby will be in constant chronic pain.

So, do you terminate or carry the pregnancy on?

I think it's entirely proper to have an opinion on your personal belief as long as you understand it's just your personal moral belief and not attempt to force your opinions on another pregnant woman.

It's absolutely fine to say you don't believe in abortion or you feel life begins at conception and not at birth. Perfectly valid views.

However others have their perfectly valid views too.

Mine would be the mothers rights and views trump the babies until birth. I believe a woman has full autonomy over her body regardless of pregnancy.

Again op best wishes. Xx

Crikey May have to name change. I had very same awful situation the worst moment of my life. My baby would not have had a life so severely oh I don't know what to say because I am still protective , how mixed up is that , but yes I trrminated because my baby would have died the moment he had to survive without an umbilical cord . Awful . My heart is with you. You will get through this. . Chin up . Xxxxxx
Yes terminate ??

Hope this thread is supportive to the op and other posters.

Whatever our moral stances huge sympathy and support op and others.

That's what mumsnet is for

Chubby all parents who are awaiting a yearned for child are pro life. Wait until life completely punches you in the goolies and all other options are awaiting a slow death once born and then sit on your high horse . If you are in that situation you address the potential suffering of your offspring versus the Catholic upbringing of your in laws. If you are not in that position you cannot judge. OP. My heart and soul is with you and you will get through this xxxxxx

I have a life long disability and although I'm prochoice I've always felt very uncomfortable with the idea of abortion on the grounds that the child would have a disability. Whilst some of the comments made by others on this thread are hitting my buttons I feel in this case OP you made the best decision and I'll be thinking of you.

Littlejohnnydory, I also thought of it in terms of the "principle of secondary effect". In Catholic pro-life terms, delivering early - very early - in order to avoid untreatable intrauterine pain to baby, risk of bladder rupture, and maternal health risk - is not termination, even if the immediate result of this intervention is the inevitable death of the baby.

But one point OP made about the risk of stillbirth not being noticed due to lack of fetal movement, leading to maternal infection - it is possible to rent a Doppler to check the heart beat at home daily. I did this for peace of mind in a pregnancy after I lost a baby to unexplained stillbirth at 36 weeks. It did not sound as though this was a deciding factor for the OP, but I wanted to mention it for anyone else who ever has to consider continuing a pregnancy with a diagnosis incompatible with life. A friend of mine continued after a diagnosis of Dandy-Walker syndrome until almost full-term before the baby died, as expected. It was hard emotionally, as she knew it would be, but potential physical maternal effects of stillbirth were not a big concern.

My heart goes out to you and your DH cat truly, what an awful thing to have to come to terms with.

IM PROLIFE, this situation sounds terrible. It is very very complicated but if it was me in that position I would not want my child to suffer but on the other hand I could never live with the guilty of ending my baby's life.

If it was to be exactly as you said and no glimmer of hope (as doctors as sometimes overestimate) then it sounds reasonable to terminate although I would never get over it ever.

Chubby I doubt that Cat will 'get over it ever' either, but the grief she will feel at the loss of her baby will be just the same regardless of whether she chooses to abort now or allows nature to take its course which will result in the PG spontaneously aborting at a later date anyway, with potentially much more suffering to the foetus, and possibly greater physical/emotional trauma for Cat.

This is less about whether you are 'Pro Life' and more about whether you are 'Anti Unnecessary Suffering.'

I see OP's choice as the only realistic one. I don't think I'd tell the in laws the whole truth.

This is so sad and I am so sorry this is happening to you. Id terminate because there is no chance of a miracle here. Waiting is not going to change anything and if anything you could be putting yourself at risk.

I would terminate. I am sorry you have to make that decision.

I think baby should come first and giving birth isn't doing best for baby. Just pain and more pain. No, I couldn't knowingly allow all that pain to happen

Op. I would have no hesitation in terminating in your situation. & I'm fairy 'pro life' ( in that I think the abortion limit needs changing to 12 weeks, anything over that should be in exceptional circumstances only - like yours )
So sorry you are going through this.

Dixie such sad posts.

Op have been thinking about you during the night and although we are all internet strangers we can hopefully offer you support and love while you can equally say things here you may not be able to in RL.

Whatever our views on a woman's choice( can't use the ridiculous phrase pro life) hopefully as decent people we can all support your decision. Xxx

Newyonker
I'm so sorry for what you had to go through, but I am truly shocked that you would advocate self-scanning with a doppler in this situation.
It is very different from using one to reassure yourself that a heartbeat is still there

i had a termination at 25 weeks due to my baby having a life limiting condition.
my dh and i decided to terminate the pregnancy so our baby would not suffer.
yes it was horrible but i knew my baby would not suffer in life.
it doesnt matter what other people say or think as long as you always know that what you and your dh do is the right thing for you.

So sorry for what you are going through.

I've been through similar, however nature took its course and saved me from having to make a difficult decision.

In your position I would terminate. Remember, whatever choice you make, you don't have to explain it to anyone. If you wanted to, I see no issue with simply explaining to people that you have lost a much wanted baby and leave it at that. It is nobody else's business.

I don't agree with abortion except for serious medical reasons (does that make me "pro-life"?). I'm not religious - it's my own belief.

I'm not sure what I'd do in your situation but I wouldn't think it morally wrong to abort when the outlook for your poor baby is so bleak.

I'm so sorry you're in this awful situation. I hope you find peace in whatever decision you make.

I would terminate in your position, I am not anti-abortion, but wouldn't personally do it unless there was a medical reason why the baby would not survive or would be in pain.

So sorry for what you are going through OP

I tend towards the pro life standpoint but in your position I would terminate the pregnancy asap and I would advise my dd to do the same. I guess I don't like 'social' abortions but your situation is extreme and heartbreaking. I don't think you have a choice really, terminating this pregnancy is the most loving thing you could ever do for this baby.

I agree with you regarding the Doppler Cat. I don't see how that is a practical option, much less one that wouldn't be massively emotionally damaging to put yourself through on a daily (or more than daily) basis.

I hope you are doing ok. Have you decided yet what you will tell the Irish side of the family? I can understand wanting to be open and have them fully understand. But if you think that is unlikely, the kindest option to you and your husband may be to tell a white lie that they can understand - something like that the baby was incredibly poorly and unfortunately didn't make it.

Again, I am so so sorry for your loss. You are living one of the worst imaginable scenarios and your love for your baby sings through your posts. Ensuring your baby doesn't suffer pain may be the greatest gift you can offer as a parent. And though it may not seem like much, it is a massive gift given out of love. I hope that one day you will be blessed with as many beautiful rainbow babies as you may wish for.

I think she was suggesting the doppler because of the lack of fetal movement, and therefore lack of warning signs if the baby died in the womb. It was to help avoid the chance of infection.

I realise why she was suggesting it. I just don't think it was a good idea for anyone involved. The OP herself has said she was shocked at the suggestion.