Parent and child spaces - would you sign this petition?

[confuseddazed]

A woman has set up a petition for safeguarding parent and parking spaces for under 5s here

Well so does alcohol; should we do away with that too because some people are idiots when exposed to it?

Must admit that when DS was a baby I loved P&C spaces as I had much more room for getting him in and out. I would have been quite happy for them to be at the other end of the car park just so I had the space to manoeuvre. I never wanted or needed them to be right by the store entrance. Then again, wider car parking spaces in general would solve things too.

I see the same names on this thread are still spouting the same venom at any parent who dares to suggest that they value and need the extra space. I shall say this then leave the thread-
Being able to open the door wide is the only reason why I value p&c spaces. It has nothing at all to do with their location near the door and as I've said already, at my supermarket the car park design means that there's a lot of normal spaces which are just as close and are still a total pain for me with two children. Having said that, being near the door does mean that tiny babies don't have to be dragged half way across car parks so I can see the benefit to their location too. If they were moved away from the door then I doubt much would be achieved for those who consider themselves in need of a closer space but who didn't qualify for a badge. Someone who didn't need to park by the door would do so anyway and you'd be no better off. Even if supermarkets designated them as spaces for "those in need", some would consider "in need" to mean in a rush etc and you still wouldn't get that space. People, sadly, don't always care much for designations of spaces- as this thread demonstrates.
I prefer to get my baby's seat out of the car because it's warmer, cleaner, dryer, more comfy for her than the horrible solid plastic things and means that I don't have to carry her across the car park in my arms to get a trolley. I don't think that is unreasonable at all.
No one, no one at all on this thread or in RL in my experience has argued that disabled spaces are of less or even equal value. I have argued that providing more disabled spaces and opening up their availability to those with temporary needs (especially given that blue badges don't apply in supermarkets anyway) would solve many of the issues described on here without penalising another group of people.
No one has suggested that being disabled means you must be in a wheel chair. I HAVE stated that blue badges are mobility aids- which they are.

I have never attacked anyone for parking anywhere they wish but I have been pissed off by people being selfish enough to make the lives of others harder when there are so few p&c spaces anyway and so many normal spaces near the door, and let's face it, any space in a supermarket car park is going to be reasonably close to the store and most non-disabled people are, I'm sure, capable of that walk (especially given that they are about to walk around a supermarket!).

I don't agree that the only people who use those spaces without having a child are those in need. I think that's ridiculously naive. I think many people without young children use them because they are lazy parkers/precious about their car/lacking in any sense of compassion. I have witnessed countless examples of this- be it the builder jogging into the supermarket or the business man dashing in. In fact in truth I have very rarely seen anyone without a child who has parked in a p&c space and appeared less able to walk that distance than I am. These spaces remember are around 10 steps nearer to the door at my supermarket, if that. Any customer will travel far further once inside the store. At my supermarket the p&c spaces are the first ones you come to in the car park, hence their popularity.
They are p&c spaces. It doesn't matter what the motivation is for designating them thus. They are though designated thus by those who own the land on which they stand and I personally go with that. I never use them when I'm not with my children (even when I had a broken foot or when I was so close to giving birth I could barely breathe when walking) and won't use them once my youngest child is old enough to make the extra space unnecessary.
In the meantime I'll be grateful for that tiny bit of extra help at what is a nightmare of a job (let's face it) and continue to be pissed off at some of the attitudes I've seen on this thread.

It is much easier getting a baby out of a car than getting a child out who when you lean across him to unfasten his specialist harness, grabs you by the hair and head butts you. Or scratches your face. Or bites your arm. Or starts hurting himself. That you have to wrestle into an sn buggy or into another harness and hope the sn trolley is available when you get to the store. Yet because he is over 4, doesn't need a p and c space.

Sing, is the irony of your stating the same posters are still spouting the same stuff totally lost on you?
And why is the act of crossing a car park transmuted into dragging a child?
Of course BB are not mobility aids. They are there to assist people with a variety of issues which may involve limited or impaired mobility but also include conditions such as ASD where the use of a BB space may be for a child who does not have mobility issues but requires to use a Maclaren Major for other reasons

Zazzie, do you qualify for a BB for him when he turns 5? No side to this question, I'm asking genuinely. I have a friend with a severely autistic son who she refers to as The Bolter. I remember she had to wait until he was 5 or 6 to get a BB. She had to use double reins as he managed to get out of just one set. I am always amazed at the juxtaposition of his severe LDs and his amazing dexterity.

X posts with SoldierBear. The child I was referring to has no mobility issues at all. He can twist, climb, spin and jump like a Ninja and run like a greyhound.

sing - all the points in your essay have already been addressed

p&c spaces are a nice perk for a short time

if there is no p&c space available it isn't really that big a deal - on those occasions, you may have to walk across the carpark holding your baby, and the hand of your toddler (or use a wrist strap/reins), you may have to leave the children in the car whilst you get a trolley to put the children in, you may need to use a buggy, and hand bags on the back - it is not every time you shop, just ocassionally bit of an inconvenience.

The reason that blue badges, and disabled spaces have been brought into the argument is that sometimes, the people that park in P&C spaces without children have a genuine need to be in a wider space or nearer the store - yes, this won't be every person who does this, but it does happen, and those people have been on the receiving end of abuse and some have even been fined by the supermarkets for parking there after parents have made complaints about them - on one occasion, in the article i linked to an old couple with a blue badge who parked in the parent and child spaces as all the disabled spaces were taken, had this note left on the windscreen of their car -“This is not a disabled space, this is for parents, you stupid old bastards.”

People get a self entitled rage over parking spaces, and I just don't believe that it is a good idea to let the enraged person to police these things. So the petition asks for there to be permits, can you not see how that would leave some people in the position of being even more vulnerable to abuse?

You say about Blue Badges - I spoke to a Blue badge assessor yesterday, the bureaucracy is appalling, there is a 4-5 week wait for a badge for my son who uses a wheelchair and has orthotics on his legs, she said that they are snowed under with the work, how would this work with 1000s of people applying for badges for temporary conditions - most of which would be resolved by the time the badge came through?!

This is not about some sort of vilification of parents, I am a parent I have 3 children, we have used p&c spaces when they are available, and when they aren't we have parked in normal spaces - it is not that big a deal - what will be a big deal is if we park in a p&c space when ds is over 5, and get abuse from parents of younger children because we are in their space.

My essay over. (Oh and it Hazey, not Hazel)

He's 8. ASD, learning difficulties, and behavoural difficulties all appear on the list of things that do not qualify for a bb. It is possible to qualify through hrm but that requirs hrc which you only get if your child is a poor sleeper.

Oh I'm not disagreeing with you re BBs. And I've already said that I think the petition is silly and unworkable.
It seems ridiculous that you can't get a BB for your son because he sleeps well. Does that only apply to asd? I know it makes a massive difference to my friend and literally is the difference between getting out and not. As I said, he has no mobility problems whatsoever but there is no question that she needs it.

I have never attacked anyone for parking anywhere they wish
Well, you had a go at me, Singsong.
People have explained again and again why a temporary pass would not work and why parent passes would only increase the vilification experienced by people with disabilities who may, on occasion, need to use them.
On a final note, please don't 'drag' your children across a car park.

This thread needs to be closed. Singsong has become a target now and it's verging on bullying.

This thread needs to be closed because nothing new is being said. If nobody else posts it will just drop off active.