Parent and child spaces - would you sign this petition?

[confuseddazed]

A woman has set up a petition for safeguarding parent and parking spaces for under 5s here

Temporary bbs would never work. And think of the admin! And the whole point of them is to alleviate one element of life that makes access to normality difficult when you are disabled...that doesn't really apply when it is just a short term thing that will soon be over.

Sing I doubt if most people will find your post of 18.15 remotely convincing.

Sauv - sorry that your brain surgery has been trivialised, although Sing seems to have attempted to clarify what she meant.

By the time a temporary bb was issued, the vast majority of people would have recovered. It is a non-workable idea.

I don't understand why some parents are so territorial over a parking space. I really don't!

These threads always go the same way. Ridiculous, extreme views on both sides.
I just wish there could be one of these threads with no reference to disabled spaces. Really I do. They are not comparable. Not in the slightest. Most normal, rational, sane people know this and would never think to question this. Anyone who does is a self entitled idiot.

But why anyone has an issue with something designed to make someone else's life a bit easier during a small segment of their life is beyond me. You can't say you hate them and they should be banned because you're disabled and people see them as the same. We can't legislate for fuckwits. Most people use them when their kids are little and find them useful especially if you end up with 3 or 4 young children. They are not a necessity. They are not enshrined in law; not should they be. But...they make a lot of parents lives easier when shopping. And all they do is mean that able bodied shoppers like me when I'm not out with my children have a 30second longer walk to the shop.

What is there to loathe about something making someone else's life easier? Sure, moan about any idiot who sees them as the same as disabled spaces, but to complain they exist and suggest as I've seen in this thread and others that you should just leave the kids in the trolley whilst you drive out in order to be able to open your food wide enough is just ridiculous and spiteful. And there's no argument to be had with 'oh I managed 20yrs ago' Spaces are smaller and cars are bigger and, well, why shouldn't society evolve to make peoples lives easier wherever possible.

This attitude of 'well I'll use them if I want whether I'm with children or not. Having a child shouldn't afford you any extra provision.' is hideous and nasty. I won't change anyone's mind but I'm proud to say that I don't hold such unkind, stubborn and self-centred views.

Fwiw, I disagree with the petition. But I think courtesy, compassion and empathy are traits worthy of holding.

ThumbWitchesAbroad,yes there will be some people who will be unable to do this. It's the general helplessness of some parents that gets me. Ds is too big to carry so he has to wear a harness or backpack with strap. If he didn't he wouldn't be able to go anywhere around cars. So he wears it whether he likes it or not.

As pp says a temporary blue badge might be a good idea in theory, but the weight (and the wait) of the admin would make them pointless. I have just spent a chunk of the afternoon discussing my ds's blue badge with the local council. The turnaround on renewing badges is about 4 weeks (this is a best case scenario) ds's high rate mobility DLA is up for renewal at the same time and that is also delayed...the lady on the phone said that as ds (nearly5) has a life long genetic condition, a wheelchair (well sn buggy with postural supports) and can't walk any distance without pain, that he should be able to get the badge renewed, but there may be further delays as it is not 'straightforward'.....

Imagine throwing 1000s of temporary badges into the mix!

I did manage yes. I squeezed my baby out of the small space available. Hard work but not impossible

Bollocks is it hard work, its a piece of piss getting a baby out of a car. When did people become so helpless that they think getting a baby out of a car is hard work. If its that hard leave the car at home next time and walk. Actually I would say the van driver needed a p&c space close to the door about as much as you do, probably more unless you also drive a van.

What on earth do people do when they are going down main roads with their children for long distances if crossing a car park is so much of an issue?

Sing - some advice. When you are in a hole, stop digging before you insult someone else.

Your comments about Sauv's brain tumour are disgraceful and disgusting and show a complete and utter lack of understanding and compassion on your part.

When I had 3 under 15 months I only frequented supermarkets with plenty of P&C spaces near to the store so I didn't have to steer a huge heavy food loaded trolley with a baby,a toddler inside and another walking toddler across crappy bumpy car parks with idiots going too fast and not looking where they were going.

As I spent nigh on £200 a week it was win win for the supermarket and me.

Supermarket car parks can be dangerous for parents with small DC.

The empathy lacking,who can make the nastiest anti lazy young mum comment threads are beyond tedious.

Has anybody screamed "disabilist" yet?

It isn't just a "small segment of their life".
One person spoke about still using a P&C space with an 8 year old child and thought this was perfectly reasonable.
Few people would class 8 years a small segment of their life. It's more time that a child spends in primary school.

But why anyone has an issue with something designed to make someone else's life a bit easier during a small segment of their life is beyond me.

This has been explained several times. It's because they are designed to make life easier for (well really, they're designed to lure into the shop to spend money...) one specific group of people who are by no means the most vulnerable or the most in need of wider spaces/spaces closer to the door. By being designated as for "parent and child" they are reducing the number of spaces available, usually close to the entrance, for people who have a genuine NEED for them but no child.

Where are you getting your "need" figures from?

There are hoards of disabled parking spaces near store entrances at all our local supermarkets and all have spaces every time I go shopping.

If there are proportional numbers of disabled spaces for the number who need them in society then P&C spaces are a separate issue. If you used the P&C spaces as disabled along with disabled spaces you'd be near enough closing off a quarter of car park spaces in some car parks.

One thing I've noticed from Mn threads in general is that the posters complaining about people's lack of empathy (always towards them or to 'mums' as a group) tend to do so while displaying no empathy whatsoever towards people less fortunate than them.

Ah, irony.

That 1/4 of the car park is already closed off to the vast majority of the population though. And many of them may have equally good (or better) reasons for wanting to park in nice wide spaces close to the door, but 1/2 of them are reserved for parents with children.

Really I never see that,I see pretty much universal empathy for those less fortunate.

Never once have I see anybody say disabled shoppers have no right to use disabled spaces and their needs aren't worthy.

Sauv - sorry that your brain surgery has been trivialised

Thanks ThumbWitchesAbroad but it was a Grade one tumour and in the great scheme of things it was relatively trivial.

Singsong's plan for temporary badges shows a complete lack of understanding of the speed of bureaucracy.

DH has days when he could climb a hill and days when he can beards move, should he put a claim in as he gets outs of bed in the morning.
As for the clarification of your comments about my brain surgery, Singsong, I shall take them in the spirit that I'm confident they were meant.

Read this thread if you want to see an excellent illustration of 'bugger the elderly or anyone else (unless they happen to qualify for a blue badge, which is certainly not all or even the majority of disabled people), parents of young children need empathy'.

Ivy - there are posters on MN who have been accosted when parking their cars with BB on display, by people telling them they don't look disabled. Or don't look disabled enough. It happens, especially when the BB is for people, especially children, with autism or other SN that aren't immediately physically obvious.

There is a sector of the public who truly believe that disabled = wheelchair user, and nothing else will do.

To the anti- P&C spaces brigade here really berating mums who admit they love them if available (probably only 25% of the time are any free when i shop as there are so few of them anyway- so whats the BIG BLOODY DEAL?!) Those having a go: either who don't have kids OR seem to have older kids are are mum Pros by now and clearly forgotten stresses of having a baby/toddler OR who are just complete mothers the year (by your own admission) have never got stressed out while out shopping and are just so perfect you feel the need to tell us we are shit mums because we find these spaces make a big difference to us .

Just baffled as to why you are all so up in arms about something (a really very small in the scheme of things) that exists to make shopping a bit easier for parents lucky to land a P&C space and for those who make use of them are really genuinely grateful and appreciative of, and make something a more positive, happy experience. Why does this bother you quite so much?

Its like you actually get delight from nabbing one of these spaces without kids with you/feel smug and happy you have got 1 over the majority of parents who really do need them... its very worrying.

I don't see any anti P&C spaces brigade.

Use one if there's one available and you think it will make things easier. If there isn't one available well never mind. That's it really.

Any argument that P&C spaces are depriving the elderly or injured, or other deserving but non-BB holding shoppers, of access to the shops is illogical though.

If the P&C spaces are near the supermarket door, and are taken away, because 99% of the population will park in a space nearest the door if there's one available, then chances are they are STILL not accessible to the infirm/injured/pregnant because everyone will park there, as is completely their right.

Even if they were replaced with BB spaces, then they are not accessible to the elderly/those recovering from injury or operations etc because those shoppers can't get a temporary blue badge.

But if there are P&C spaces allocated somewhere in the carpark, then parents and children can use them, but so can people who are temporarily in need, heavily pregnant women etc - like the poster upthread whose DH left a note in the car - which seems entirely reasonable. (As of course could BB holders if there are no remaining BB spaces).

I havent' seen a single poster on here suggesting that any BB spaces should be REPLACED with P&C spaces, which would be the only reason to get all outraged about the damn things surely?

I'm not anti PC spaces, used 'em myself. They are handy but you are deluded if you think they are there to make your life easier. They are there to encourage you to shop and spend your hard earned money at a supermarket.

I don't mind p and c spaces. What I do mind is a petition saying that it is ok for a parent with a healthy 4 year old to use them but not someone with far greater need.