Parent and child spaces - would you sign this petition?

[confuseddazed]

A woman has set up a petition for safeguarding parent and parking spaces for under 5s here

It would be lovely to think that Tesco et al have people's interests at heart and are worrying about children's safety but unfortunately that is not their prime reason for having P&C spaces sadly.

I don't care why they are there!! They do make a lot of lives that bit easier, we are not idiots thinking supermarkets do this because they suddenly have a conscience.

But, the problem is that by designating those spaces specifically as 'parent and child places' you delegitimise their use by anyone who doesn't fit the P&C description. So you end up with healthy women complaining about (and trying to prevent - which is exactly what this thread is about) anyone who doesn't have a small child with them (ab)using them.

You could avoid this by rebranding them as 'extra wide spaces'. The problem there is that you risk the ire of people who really, really want their own designated spaces just because they've bred and do not want to share them with anyone else. And/or you could make them less desirable by increasing the size of all the spaces.

Yes, there will always be fuckers who park in such spaces anyway. But things would be much better all round if we stopped encouraging people to imagine themselves to be part of a vulnerable and marginalised group in need of societal protection just because they have young children.

Some people think the supermarkets have them to be nice Peas. They really do.

I'm not anti P&C spaces but am against the attitude that one group of people's needs can override others with a potentially greater need.

Peas you don't NEED them.
Having children doesn't render you disabled. You have just been brainwashed by a marketing gimmick

Sharon, please don't try to tell me my own needs. Also, try to refrain from sounding quite so patronising by telling me Im such a fool I've been brainwashed.
Get that chip off your shoulder and leave people be.
I am only making use of something available to me, that on the off chance is actually free (again as I repeat- because there are so few of them anyway) that make an experience more positive. Sorry that bothers you so much. However you clearly find it so frustrating and want to take that positivity away from us, so complain to the supermarkets -not me.

It's the 21st century, and I'm allowed convenience.

If you use a p&c space and you have a NT child, who doesn't need a 5 point harness, and who can let themselves in and out of a
car and wait for you safely; you are selfish.

Actually, yes, I am against them. However, as someone who sometimes drives a car with bloody wide doors and who has trouble getting in and out of the car when there is not much space either side - I will park somewhere, anywhere, where it is more convenient for me. Most of the time, actually, I park near the exit of the car park so it's easier to get out - but can't be arsed making a fuss if it's busy or whatever there.

I really do believe that a) supermarkets don't really care who parks where. b) everyone can make a case for wanting/needing to park near the entrance of a supermarket, c) anyone sad enough to notice who parks where (as long as it is not illegal) is either a parking warden or need to get a life job and d) no supermarket will go as far as to target one specific group of customers because it is just plain silly.

I am not anti P&C spaces, they are a nice perk. But it does piss me off that people have been abused and fined for using them without children, when they have used them because they are disabled, and they either don't have a bb or the disabled spaces are full. So yes they are a nice perk, but the fact that they cause such entitled rage, is bloody ridiculous.

I am only making use of something available to me, that on the off chance is actually free (again as I repeat- because there are so few of them anyway) that make an experience more positive.

To you, an extra wide space near the entrance makes an experience more positive. To someone with a genuine need, it makes the experience possible. Can you really not see why these spaces should not be excluded from people who need them more than a healthy parent and their child?

I think the problem is that some people are self appointed parking wardens. Whereas the majority just get on with their business without being a massive stickybeak about where others park.

I have not forgotten the stresses of having a baby/toddler, however parking in the supermarket was not stressful and didn't cause any of the angst and preciousness that it does these days.
There were no p&c spaces, you drove round and found a space, parked, got children out, did shopping, went home. ( And the car I had then was a bloody great tank compared to the one I drive now).
I'm not claiming to be mother of the year or perfect, far from it, just saying it as it was. I think from all the angst and hand wringing on this thread, the p&c spaces cause more trouble than they're worth, because if there's not one available it's like the worst thing that's ever happened.

Pompous little thing aren't you peas?

but ..the idea that one group of people's needs can override others with a potentially greater need is circumstantial. It's handy when it's used to argue against others. For example it's seen that the more needy or frail or old should get parking spots near the door. People are up in arms that mothers get this preferential treatment over others. However when you actually get INSIDE the supermarket and all the old and frail and disabled and those that found a parking space near the door a great convinience are expected to queue up just like everyone else, no one gives a shit then, even if the checkouts are packed and the wait is long! Double standards.

I have no issue with anyone using them if they genuinely feel they need the extra space. Needing the extra space isn't exclusively a parenting issue do I'm not sure why I'm 'missing the irony'.
And to my mind it is a small segment of time. I have 4 children aged 12,9,3&1. I absolutely seek out P&C spaces when I have my younger ones in the car and I find them very useful. But if I'm out with just my older two then no way would I use them. Neither boys are still in a booster seat let alone a car seat and they are big enough to get in and out of the car by themselves even in a tight squeeze. If it's tight, They have both been taught to place their hand the other side of the door so it's their hand pressing against the other car rather than my car door.

So it would never occur to me to use then when I don't need them and that's the point, really. If you feel you need them, use them but it's disingenuous to suggest that everyone using them without kids is in genuine need. I know lots of people use them simply because they don't understand why parents of young children need the space. I can't get get up over people using them because they feel they need to but the 'fuck you' attitude that some people have towards anyone outside their bubble is depressing.

I am really over giving a rats arse about P&C spaces and especially about anyone elses opinions on them. The many MN threads on them has killed them for me.

I don't care what any of you think about them :)

If one is available I'll use it. If not, I'll use any other park.

They do seem to bring out the very worse in people and for that reason I think they should be done away with.

But TedAndLola, your argument is for more accessible spaces which is a very valid point. But it doesn't mean we need to abolish P&C spaces in order to achieve this.
Most supermarkets could accommodate both. Most parents would happily walk from further away if they could have the space up the side. If they were lumped together them you'd get those with mobility issues complaining that parents were using them up. You could offer non BB accessible spaces close to the shop and P&C further away with a safe walkway. You are arguing as if the presence of P&C spaces is preventing accessible spaces being available.

But TedAndLola, your argument is for more accessible spaces which is a very valid point. But it doesn't mean we need to abolish P&C spaces in order to achieve this.

But allowing people with a need to use "P&C" spaces would achieve it. Then people who need them can use them and do their shopping, and those who can cope without them can use others and do their shopping. There is no need to make spaces that ONLY parents and children can use, which is what the petition in the OP is asking for.

No but you'd need a lot more than are currently offered obv.
The putting P&C spaces at the back wouldn't help those with mobility issues though.

P&C spaces make "an experience more positive"?

Since when was going shopping "an experience"?

It is an everyday activity. One which can be achieved with minimal inconvenience if no P&C space is available.

You do not drive to the supermarket for "an experience". You go there to do your shopping. You can achieve this if all the P&C spaces are full of cars with car seats in them. Having to walk across a car park with a child is hardly an ordeal or a negative experience. It is a perfectly ordinary experience.

Why don't you all just do online supermarket shops and fecking we'll have done with it?

I have baby/multiple toung children now so haven't forgotten. I expect the healthy mums/dads that see p and c parking spaces as essential are the type of car drivers that see walking quarter of a mile to the corner shop as a marathon

This thread should show why they should be done away with- they bring out the worst in some parents.

It has gained all of 5 signatures in 14 hours.