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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Irish abortion laws

999 replies

crumpet · 23/05/2015 16:38

In all the publicity about the gay marriage referendum Aibu to wonder why there hasn't been mention of the abortion laws? Have I missed discussion on this?

OP posts:
bumbleymummy · 31/05/2015 20:07

Interesting, re opinions of the abortion law in Canada.

"The poll asked if people would support “the introduction of a law in Canada that places limits on when a woman can have an abortion during her pregnancy, such as during the last trimester.”

Sixty per cent would support this, while 40% would not."

I wonder if it will change...

SabrinnaOfDystopia · 31/05/2015 20:11

Society doesn't always place women's rights of autonomy over her own body to the forefront, bumbley. That's why feminism exists.

But nevertheless, the pro-choice viewpoint is overwhelmingly apparent on mumsnet - but it doesn't stop you, does it?

bumbleymummy · 31/05/2015 20:13

Why would it stop me from having my own opinions. What an odd thing to say Hmm

bumbleymummy · 31/05/2015 20:14

How do you feel about democracy Sabrinna? If the majority are for/against something - eg the poll from Canada above.

SabrinnaOfDystopia · 31/05/2015 20:15

Can you show me the source of the poll?

SabrinnaOfDystopia · 31/05/2015 20:16

But just so you know, no it doesn't change my opinion, just as you posting on MN incessantly doesn't change yours.

bumbleymummy · 31/05/2015 20:17

Ipsos Reid

SabrinnaOfDystopia · 31/05/2015 20:18

A link would be nice...

bumbleymummy · 31/05/2015 20:18

Why would it? I think everyone said at the start that they didn't expect to change other people's opinions. I find it strange that you support something that you can't even seem to justify but hey, each to their own.

SabrinnaOfDystopia · 31/05/2015 20:20

In opinion polls, 65% of people in the UK think we should bring back hanging. Do I believe that it should be re-introduced? No.

bumbleymummy · 31/05/2015 20:40

You don't have to agree with the opinion but if the majority vote for something how do you feel? Do you only agree with democracy if the majority share your opinion?

SabrinnaOfDystopia · 31/05/2015 20:51

It would depend - certainly our democratically elected government doesn't always go the majority opinion of it populace on a lot of matters, - otherwise, for example, we'd have the death penalty re-introduced here.

Perhaps those decision makers in Canada agree with me that the only opinion that matters is that of the pregnant woman and her doctor(s).

SabrinnaOfDystopia · 31/05/2015 21:24

bumbley, I've just looked up that ipsos poll. You really did twist that didn't you? Have you ever considered work as a spin doctor?

In addition to the result you posted here, other results show:

"The poll found that 49% of Canadians think abortion “should be permitted whenever a woman decides she wants one.” Another 45% said abortion should “be permitted in certain circumstances.”

Just six per cent said it “should not be permitted under any circumstances.”

Ipsos Reid reports that support for a woman’s right to an abortion has increased over the years; the pollster points to a 1988 poll that showed 36% support for unrestricted abortion rights and 39% support for abortion with restrictions."

I can see why you wouldn't link to it.... it shows that support for no restrictions has increased since 1988.

LucyBabs · 01/06/2015 01:39

Good find sabrina
Honestly bumbly if you can't support women and mother's at least be honest. You want a foetus, embryo, zygote to have the exact same rights as the pregnant woman and if that means the woman and foetus die then so be it. I just can't and won't ever understand the opinion of a woman like you bumbly.
You come across as heartless and I genuinely feel sorry for you and your daughters, nieces and potential granddaughter's

bumbleymummy · 01/06/2015 10:59

Excuse me? I did not twist anything. I gave you the answer to one of the questions that was asked:

""The poll asked if people would support “the introduction of a law in Canada that places limits on when a woman can have an abortion during her pregnancy, such as during the last trimester.”

Sixty per cent would support this, while 40% would not."

Are you disputing that question was asked or the result of the poll? I find it very interesting that the majority of people think a law should be introduced to limit when a woman can have an abortion e.g. during the last trimester which is what we have been discussing. You have said that you think the law should be extended to allow abortion to term as they do in Canada but the results from that poll suggest that most Canadians think third trimester abortions should be restricted.

Thanks Lucy - it was actually my find so I will take credit for that.

"if that means the woman and foetus die then so be it" FALSE. As you know from this thread but don't let facts stand in the way of you making things up.

bumbleymummy · 01/06/2015 11:57

And as for feeling sorry for my children and grandchildren - I think they'll be glad to know that I valued their lives/their parents lives even in utero so I don't think they need your pity.

LucyBabs · 01/06/2015 15:46

You do think the foetus should have the exact same rights as the pregnant woman though, regardless the stage of pregnancy..

bumbleymummy · 01/06/2015 16:14

I think it has a right to life.

user838383 · 01/06/2015 16:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LineRunner · 01/06/2015 16:48

Boopsy, that's your choice, to do as you want with your body and your years on earth.

Same for me.

leedy · 01/06/2015 18:06

"giving up 9 months of it to let another life which is already there have the chance to be born"

Yes, except that (among many other reasons why I'm pro-choice), pregnancy isn't just "giving up 9 months" (as if it's just a minor inconvenience, like having your foot in a cast), it involves a not-inconsiderable risk to your own life and health. If my pre-eclampsia hadn't been spotted and effectively treated, my last pregnancy might have killed me. And I won't even start on the litany of nasty health complaints people I know have suffered as a result of much-wanted pregnancies.

Also I see everyone else has tried and failed to argue my own point about legal restrictions with bumbley so I won't bother.

Btw, when I mentioned that induction might be suggested by HCPs to a woman as a way of ending a healthy pregnancy earlier on in the thread, I meant AT (or near) TERM, not "once you hit 24 weeks" as bumbley seems to be suggesting as a "perfect solution" because apparently after that "you don't need bodily autonomy because the foetus just might survive with major medical intervention". That worked reeeeaaaaaally well here in Ireland recently, yeah? Obviously there are some cases where inducing a (wanted) pregnancy very early might be a good choice for a particular woman (happened to my cousin at 25 weeks, now has a very happy healthy 7 year old), but I certainly wouldn't argue that it should be the only or default or ideal option for unwanted pregnancies, not least because of all the parentless potentially very ill/disabled babies that would be the result.

bumbleymummy · 01/06/2015 19:36

"it involves a not-inconsiderable risk to your own life and health"

and abortion doesn't carry any risks?

"I see everyone else has tried and failed to argue my own point about legal restrictions"

"I meant AT (or near) TERM, not "once you hit 24 weeks" as bumbley seems to be suggesting"

Ahem, where am I suggesting this as some kind of 'perfect solution'? I used 24 weeks because that is the current legal limit in the UK and considered the point of 'foetal viability'. Although the earliest living child was born at 21 weeks and 5 days. (canadian - he went to college a few years back)

bumbleymummy · 01/06/2015 19:38

Also, I was talking about induction in the context of it being an alternative to termination (in the 'vanishingly rare' /would never happen)post 24 week situations because it allows a woman to 'end her pregnancy' and therefore exercise her right to bodily autonomy while also giving the foetus a chance to live.

leedy · 01/06/2015 20:52

"and abortion doesn't carry any risks?"

Fewer than carrying a pregnancy to term.

LucyBabs · 01/06/2015 22:20

Boopsy Do you think women who take contraception are selfish too? (Or how about women who take the MAP or even men who use condoms) Coz ya know they are preventing pregnancy each month and denying all those eggs in their ovaries a chance at life!

Your argument is ridiculous and what another woman chooses to do with a pregnancy in her own body isn't your business. It doesn't affect you and it never will.

Have you actually ever been pregnant? Would you actually force someone to continue with a pregnancy when its not what they want? Oh but adopting the unwanted baby would be a great solution Confused