Irish abortion laws

[crumpet]

In all the publicity about the gay marriage referendum Aibu to wonder why there hasn't been mention of the abortion laws? Have I missed discussion on this?

You in Ireland also abolished the rope and decriminalised homosexuality by Parliamentary action, not by referendum.

I've voted in a referendum on capital punishment in Ireland.

I absolutely agree Andrew. And with leedy, that we need this out of the constitution above all else.

Bumbley what happened to my aunt happened directly as a result of the 8th amendment, as this was 22 or 23 years ago. That was what that wording led to.

I will be out doorstepping when and if this ever comes up but my priority will at that point be winning and having the 8th removed, not how clever or right on I sound. I absolutely will not be talking about us being backwards or misogynistic or such things. Shaming people shuts their ears and closes their mind.

It is really, really easy to be all high and mighty about how terrible another country is from outside its borders when it impacts you on a common humanity level but not on a personal one. I had three kids in the UK and I was bloody glad of the legislation to protect me. If I wanted another child now I would be very hesitant to get pregnant in Ireland because of maternity care and lack of informed consent for ARM.

None of this makes me need to insult Ireland nor denigrate positive moves towards a more equal society as mawkish or self congratulatory.

Why though duplo? How were they protecting the foetus' right to life in that case? How can it be interpreted that way?

I do think that people in the UK have some tight to comment on the Irish abortion issue as Ireland, instead of dealing with it themselves, simply exports the problem to the UK instead.

slug Everyone has the right to comment. But if you comment about a country you don't live in as if you do, then others have the right to comment on how that makes them feel.

I gave birth in the same unit Savita died in. She was in my head the whole day. That is in no way shape or form the same experience as someone living in London for the past 20 years.

Bumbleymummy- pease will you state your position on abortion?

Eh? Why?

Bumbley, because it was illegal to use the particular drug in Ireland as it was an abortifacient. Regular induction methods failed. In the end, after six weeks from the time the hb was found absent at 29 weeks gestation, the consultant smuggled the drug in from a friend in England though it was illegal. I wish this were a joke. The trauma was huge.

That's crazy duplodon. I really don't see how it could be interpreted that way. It seems more to be to do with drug laws than the 8th specifically. So sorry that your aunt had to go through that.

George As to the rope thank you, I stand corrected. As to decriminalising homosexuality I don't. You had to repeal the very same laws from Victorian times which we repealed for England in 1967, later for Scotland, and later still for NI.

As slug says Ireland exports its abortions to London and Liverpool. Not good for anyone except, I suppose, the clinics there. I have seen Irish pols banging on about horrible heathen England allowing such things and known that they would not hesitate if it was their daughter, niece, granddaughter - it would be off to the airport in double-quick time and let's all keep quiet about it, wouldn't it?

Slug I think people in the UK should spend more time fighting to ensure all British women have access to save and legal abortion before they start commenting on other country's abortion laws or lack of. Also exporting the 'problem' seems to imply that irish women travelling to Britain to have abortions negatively impacts on British people. I fail to see how that can be the case.

No, the drug was prohibited because of the eighth specifically because it was an abortifacient. The drug was an abortion drug and therefore illegal to have in the state. Abortion in Ireland under the eighth is illegal unless it is to save the life of the mother. Ending the pregnancy using an abortifacient as opposed to an induction agent, whether the baby was alive or dead, was not legal as my aunt's life was not in danger. Whether or not it should have been legally interpreted like this by her medical team doesn't take from the fact medical decisions in cases like this should not be based on constitutional wording that requires a lawyer to interpret accurately. In fact, it sort of proves the point.

it would be off to the airport in double-quick time and let's all keep quiet about it, wouldn't it?

.......Yeah, there's absolutely nothing offensive or patronising in this thread at all......

Bruthas It impacts negatively on Irish women having to make the journey, not, as you say, on British people.

Annarose Am I wrong in saying that that happens?

If it rested with me - which it does not - Ireland would change its abortion law. But as long as there are two countries with such different laws on the matter, geographically close with open travel between them, it will happen. There used to be a euphemism in France where visiter Génève meant to have an abortion. I can see nothing offensive or patronising about mentioning it.

Your sweeping generalisation is offensive, yes. That everyone here packs off their children to sweep away the "shamefulness". You don't live here. Please don't pretend to know the testimonies of the women who have to leave this country to obtain an abortion.

To briefly lighten the mood- here's a Westboro baptist in a bit of trouble.....

vine.co/v/eqTe0jgMIT0

I was not thinking of "shamefulness" - was thinking of the case where the Attorney General got an injunction to forbid the woman from having an abortion. That provides an excellent motive for keeping quiet about it, doesn't it? What the Attorney does not know about he will not meddle with try to prevent!

Andrew are you trying to persuade me you didn't come across badly? Cos you did, unfortunately.

Annarose2014 I know what I meant; you know how I came across to you. The two obviously differ.

You don't want to see Irish women - for whatever motive or mix of motives - having to travel to Britain at a bad time for them, and neither do I. On that we don't differ.

Andrew we have had the legal right to travel outside the state for an abortion since 1992, for most women nobody is going to stop you regardless of how quiet or unquiet you are about it: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth_Amendment_of_the_Constitution_of_Ireland

The problems with travel are for people who can't afford it, migrants with unresolved immigration issues, etc.

"The problems with travel are for people who can't afford it, migrants with unresolved immigration issues, etc."

And for very young women who are dependent on their parents. And, frankly, for anyone. Why the fuck should you have to travel to another country in order to exercise a choice over what goes on in your own body?

What about legal minors needing abortion services?

"And for very young women who are dependent on their parents. And, frankly, for anyone. Why the fuck should you have to travel to another country in order to exercise a choice over what goes on in your own body?"

Well yes, of course. I was just responding to Andrew's suggestion that we all keep quiet about travelling for an abortion in case the Attorney General tries to stop us leaving the country.

I for one would keep very fucking quiet about leaving for an abortion, not for fear of emergency lawsuits but for fear of being physically stopped or attacked. Pro lifers are very bloody scary in some cases.