Fallen out with MIL over manners

[WoeIsMee]

I'm really annoyed. I've NC for this.

My MIL had my children today and they've come back saying 'what' instead of 'pardon.' This is because mil told them that 'what' is correct which is clearly wrong - it's 'pardon.'

I'm really annoyed as correct manners are so important, also it's undermined me.

WIBU to ring her and tell her she's wrong and ask her to tell the children that she was wrong?

"I really do think that 'pardon' is right. It's what I've always been taught."

Who by? Your mother?

Dreadfully non U of you, OP.

The correct term is what or silence. Nancy Mitford was not wrong!

OP you're winding us up aren't you? You know what wannabe Mitfords MN'ers are

But, to bite. You are both "right" but pardon is generally thought of as common and what as upper class. If one were a snob they may pigeonhole your children as such from their language. And don't bother falling out with her.

it wasn't Nancy Mitford that wrote that U/non U article. Just saying.

It's not about 'right' or 'wrong'; 'what?' is the upper/upper-middle way of speaking, and 'pardon?' is middle-middle/lower-middle - whichever you choose is entirely up to you, but it's probably useful for the children to know both ways and switch between them when necessary. So MIL has done you a favour really.

You would be unreasonable (and look bloody daft) to ring her and tell her she is 'wrong' though.

You were taught that pardon is right.

She was taught that pardon is common and what is right.

She can model and require what in her house, just as you model and require pardon in yours.

How have people not come across this issue before?! It's an absolute classic, like serviette v napkin or lounge v sitting room.

OP is unintentionally hilarious.

Who by?

*by whom

Yes, my mother.

I'm going to ask DH what he thinks re speaking to her.

Say whaaat? 'Pardon' is common? Is this like when some people think the Queen is only upper middle class or some such shit?

I am so common I am accidentally posh.

Sorry OP, my questioning of your post was rude. Gosh, wish this sort of argument was the biggest issue in my life, worth arguing with family over.

Oh, by the way, other posters are correct - 'pardon' is another way of saying 'sorry', 'what' is a question. So either is correct or incorrect depending on the context of speech.

I'm with the mil on this one. I have the opposite problem with my mil. She keeps telling my two to say pardon. I hate it, but wouldn't say anything.

What is the posh option, OP. If you take it up with MIL, she's going to think you are less grand than her and controlling. I recall reading somewhere mini toffs correcting their nanny, telling her, "Mummy says 'pardon' is worse than 'fuck'". Which it is, in certain circles.

Of course this means you can torment MiL enormously, get them to talk about serviettes and settees and wotnot. It'll be like scrapping your nails down her blackboard, she may visibly wince.

I'm another one who was taught that Pardon? is polite and What? is terribly uncouth and rude. I've only heard otherwise on threads like these. It's incredibly hard to break out of what you've been taught. But that goes for MIL as well as you, OP. Now you know there are two different views on the matter I think you have to swallow your annoyance, realise it wasn't intentional undermining (hopefully) and just insist on your house your rules.

I said to my 4 year old DS "we don't say 'what' we say 'pardon'" and now he wanders around saying "pardonwhat" whenever he doesn't hear something fully!

Whether 'what' or 'pardon' is correct doesn't matter. What matters is that you are considering calling her to carp about this.

Please don't. Seriously...don't.
It would be self important, disagreeable and churlish of you.
Don't be that person. It really wouldn't be polite.

'Correct' is not synonymous with 'upper class'. Pardon is considered polite by most people so unless you are a social climber, or care what the Queen chooses to say if she has misheard someone, say pardon. If it makes you happy. But, OP, don't correct MIL. She is also correct. That is why the English language is such good value.

Yes yes tell her op.

Then save up for childcare.

Waiting for your mil to post about her common dil.

I hope to God your DH has enough sense to veto you telling his mother that her (perfectly valid) way of speaking is wrong and your (equally valid) one is right

What's wrong with serviette?

Mumsnet is like going through the looking glass today!!

Tbh, in this house it's generally Sorry, love, what did you say? which avoids either and sounds nice!

She's right... but she should keep her beak out.

At least you didn't say mirror!

I was always taught that pardon is up there with serviette, settee and lounge as terribly non-U of course that's all bollocks, but it's not intrinsically polite to say pardon and rude to say what. I say what? or sorry? (the latter conveniently avoids the whole issue). I DO however take issue with people who think pardon is the ONLY polite stance - it's not

just google 'Noblesse Oblige' ed. Mitford woeismee OK? then all will be made clear.

at the correction of my grammar. Can you imagine what it would be like on MN if we always used perfect grammar, such as "By whom" instead of "Who by?" Yes, the former is the correct version, but it isn't informal and colloquial, which is the way (most of is) prefer to converse on online messageboards.

On a person level, I HATE pardon and my kids will be saying that over my dead body. But that's my decision - OP, they are your DC, your choice!