brother invited his long lost daughter on my family holiday (that he isn't going on)

[help14993]

Long story short, my brother has serious boundary problems. Before he has turned up on the beach when my family were on holiday with no accomodation and nowhere to stay, and once found out where we were going a booked a hotel in the same spot.
He's a bit of a loner, doesn't have any friends at all and is very socially awkward. He was married once over 20 years ago and it broke up and he has never seen the daughter since, and fell out massively as didn't pay child support and massive custody rows. He got back in contact a few years ago with her but hasn't seen her as she lives in the USA.
For my daughters 21st we are taking a big trip out to new York (her, her boyfriend my older daughter my husband and I). Without telling us, my brother has invited his daughter along who my children have never met, to go with us and stay. She sent me an email letting me know she would be coming and was very excited
Obviously I have nothing against this girl, she's had a hard life and I don't want to hurt her feelings. My daughters and her are very different, and have never spoken, and will now have to essentially look after her for the holiday, and its likely my brother will now inist on coming himself (which would ruin the trip, none of my family members get along with him he is very very hard work).
I'm so worried this will ruin my daughters 21st, and they are upset as will no longer have the freedom they expected to have as they won't be unkind and leave her with us. I'm sure they'd love to meet her but that just wasn't what this trip was meant to be about. Obviously this is going to be a big thing for her never having met us and could be very angry etc, its just turning into a bit of a circus and I don't know what to do
Wwyd?

Help - I think you and your dd sound lovely - you have clearly raised a mature and kind person.

On balance, I think you have made the right decision - it isn't this girl's fault that her dad has invited her along without your permission - and without even consulting you - and it is very kind of you to accept her coming along on your holiday.

However, if I were you, I would be going absolutely ballistic at your brother. He needs to be told, in no uncertain terms, that what he did was utterly unacceptable and rude. I would also be telling him that he owes your dd a huge apology for hijacking her birthday celebration, and that he is very lucky that you and your dd are the nice people you are, and haven't said she can't come on your holiday.

Then I would be insisting he hands over a decent slab of cash, so you can give all three girls a good time in NY, and you can afford an extra room for his dd to stay in.

Finally, I would stop telling him any of your arrangements. The nasty person in me would be telling him that you were planning a trek to base camp at Mount Everest - with full details - and then sit back and wait for the baffled 'Where are you all?' messages - but that might cause more family problems.

Your brother has been ghastly, numerous times, by the sounds of it. Things will only continue if you allow it. (Which you know.)

I am in two minds about this - it's very kind your daughter has agreed for her cousin to come and obviously the girl has been treated badly and is also one of your brother's casualties, so to speak. I can imagine, faced with the situation, feeling as though I should do the same.

However, there is a downside to letting her agree to this which is that she is effectively inheriting the responsibility for dealing with your brother's behaviour. Welcome to adulthood DD! What a way to celebrate her 21st indeed.

Maybe the example you need to give her is to show her how to have difficult conversations with people and to set boundaries with people who are hard to manage. THis is not the same thing as being selfish.

Giving her that road map will help her no end. I wish my parents had done it - DH and I can be doormats too and we learned this at home.

I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings but my husband is going to hit the roof

so has DH taken it on the chin?

I know that if I cause any fuss on this my father and brother will act like I had made my brother loose his daughter forever and I will never be forgiven for it.

If your DF sides with DB every time DB makes these decisions on his own I think you have bigger problems beyond this holiday tbh.

I know its not her fault but seriously, stop being such a pushover

If you had stopped this when your brother first turned up to one of your holidays, you wouldn't be in this situation now...

So basically your prepared to spend a lot of money on what was meant to be a special holiday with your immediate family, especially your DD and have this clouding it - no matter how nice the girl is etc, this is not what you planned and she is a stranger. Time and place for meeting up and this holiday isnt it. All it will do is show you let your brother ride roughshod all over your feelings e.g. they dont matter, he does what he wants when he wants.

Doesn't make any sense without knowing how this is all being funded, and where the niece will be staying.

Please don't reject this poor kid. Her dad is a loser and she has an aunt and cousins that she would love to meet.

Either invite her for a portion of the trip (a few days) or ask her to visit you at home instead. Be kind in any excuses/rearrangements, make her know you would love to see her.

Who knows? Your daughters might end up best friends.

Can you extend your trip by a few days and go visit her?

Aussiemum, you don't know she would love to meet the aunt and cousins - she might just be excited at the thought of a free holiday in NY.

I am concerned about the finances of an adult (presumably) joining you on your holiday in NY for the duration, especially if, as you say, she's had a hard time growing up so I'm presuming might not come with the money to pay for herself.

You really need to sort out who's paying for what as no doubt your immediate family will want to go out for meals, do touristy things, a spot of shopping etc and are you going to have to sub her too. Fine if you can afford it but you don't want to be changing your holiday plans to only free/cheap things if you can't afford to pay for the niece too.

Also, I'd absolutely agree with others that have suggested the niece join you for some of your holiday only. What if you don't get on with her at all, she's going to be with you the whole time. I'm guessing you're not repeating this holiday any time soon (plus it's your DD's 21st), so I really think you need a plan in case it goes pear-shaped.

I'm sure you'll realise in a couple of days if your niece is lovely and gets on with everyone. In which case you may want to invite her to the UK or maybe your daughters might want to visit her at some point in the US.

I think you need to take an assertiveness course, OP.

I think that, while I'm glad you and your DD have agreed to let your niece be a part of your holiday, you do need to ascertain who is expected to pay for her and be very clear that it won't be you. There are limits to generosity in this situation!

It may be that she is a "taker" like her father, but I think it's more likely that she's thrilled to be meeting some of her father's family for the first time and hoping that at least one relative is a decent one that she can get on with (you said she doesn't get on with her mother that well and her father is clearly a shit)

And then dump your brother and any other loose-lipped members of your family in a deep dark hole and never tell them anything about your plans ever again. Be clear that it's because your brother is such a freeloader that you're not letting them know.

As for your brother "insisting" on turning up on your holiday, well "insist" back that he bloody well won't then! His wishes do not trump yours.

Sorry I haven't read all of the messages but yes she is entirely paying her own way jet own flights and hotels! We will treat her to a some meals when out but that's something she's not expecting and same as we do for dds boyfriend

Which is nice as clearly it is not a money thing to her, it is more about the reaching out and meeting some people who maybe do carre. Sorry haven't read all posts yet just replying to the ones I've seen regarding money

Also my brother found out from my daughters Facebook account after her boyfriend tagged her in a status when we booked it and then he asked me about it and I was caught off guard. Neither of the girls hugely want him on Facebook for reasons such as this but they have both tried to delete him and he has caused such a fuss about it at family events winding up the elderly relatives and getting them upset that the girls just block a lot of their content from him (but some things get through eg this was a tagger post)

*tagged

I hope it turns out ok for you OP. As your niece is so willing to meet up with you all it sounds like she wants a relationship with you all.

Your brother is a shit though and I wouldn't care what fuss he makes, he would be off my facebook.

Do you think it's likely your brother will also turn up?

Also just to say, the reason for which I am not currently going utterly insane at my brother is that he just isn't on a level like other people. I know this sounds unbelievable, but if I were to tell him how angry at I am at him would twist it and tell the poor girl we didn't want her there, so I can't even register my displeasure with him over it at the risk of hurting her. And when I say risk it is a big risk, ive known him my whole life and if he reacted in any other way then to tell her I would be very shocked. Even if I begged him not to he would spitefuly tell her she was not invited and that I was angry at him, and even though she wasn't technically invited I think at home we are suddenly feeling very very protective over this girl that we have not yet met in light of the idiot my brother is, and we genuinely want to welcome her and not let him ruin another thing for her (even though its hard not to tell him to fuck off)
I'm no longer annoyed about meeting my neice, dh and dds have been very supportive about it. More aggrivated at brother for putting his own agenda on DD'S birthday when he didn't even get her a Christmas card never mind a present if that doesn't sound stupid. All take no give

So your brother always gets his own way because he kicks up a fuss?

Why does everyone pander to him? Is there any way that anything your girls post or get tagged in can not be seen by him?

Or (feeling mischievous now) perhaps they could post some fictional posts on their Facebook pages to lead him up the garden path.

Or even better, they could open new Facebook accounts and add him to those and delete and block him from the ones they actually use.

I would not like my daughter to feel so intimidated by any family member that she had to keep them as a Facebook friend.

I think its more to to with the loner aspects of him, and I think they both find it hard to say no when their older relatives are reminding them hebhas few friends (none in RL) and Facebook isn't really that important to them so they don't mind having him on there to appease everyone, with my brother it does seem to be all about peace making.
Though oncen when dad's were younger and he kept snooping on their facebooks and telling me (who already had them on Facebook by their request not mine!) what they were up to that he frowned upon, so older DD posted a fake picture of a pregnancy scan on her younger dd's Facebook announcing her 'pregnancy' (to he clear I didn't know about this) and waited to see how long until it got around to the family all over the British isles from this one Facebook friend
I got a call from a relative in wales that he'd contacted within the hour

Your daughters shouldn't feel under pressure to have anyone they don't want as a facebook friend. I think you should have stood up for their right not to have every older relative feeling nosy as a facebook friend. I agree that I don't understand why kicking up a fuss should change things. If someone kicked up a fuss that they weren't my facebook friend I'd be more inclined to defriend them. Just accept he will make a fuss because that's what he does and continue with plan A. They should now defriend him and maybe don't go to family events your brother attends for a while and tell him not to be such an old perv and leave his young nieces alone in a teasing manner if he fusses.
Telling him the hotel details was just silly. You know what he's like and could have mumbled something vague or said it's a secret with a benign smile.
It sounds as though he gets to behave like an inconsiderate idiot because none of you call him on it.

Your DDs can restrict him further, I suspect - I have a few people on a restricted list, they're useful contacts but I don't want them knowing my personal business - and then make all posts visible to whomever except restricted. I think you can restrict tagged posts as well.

Your DD did make me laugh thought with her naughty fake pg scan photo - what a tosser your brother really is.

Your niece sounds like she's all right - not a "taker" at all - so I really hope it works out well for you all. Glad your DH is on board as well; now it's just a case of making sure your brother doesn't ruin it all for you. Best option? Get to NY and all decamp to a different hotel/area immediately.

Agree change hotels if you can. But don't forget to have a great time.

Re Facebook. I find it funny that grown adults kick up such a fuss if you de friend them. My mil deleted me from fb. Because I'm no longer considered to be part of her family.
She's now kicking off because she can't see what we get up to. If it wasn't so sad it'd be funny. She's behaving like a spoilt teenager.

emem I refused to add MIL to my FB. She has enough real life involvement in my/our life, I don't need her on there as well!