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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to whinge about the SNP?

198 replies

SaucyJack · 08/05/2015 09:44

I didn't vote for the SNP. Not because I didn't want to, but because I didn't have the option as I live in England.

Yet they now have the third biggest say on policies that directly affect me.

Is this fair and democratic?

OP posts:
flora717 · 08/05/2015 09:47

Fptp

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 08/05/2015 09:49

YABU. Almost every seat in Scotland is SNP yet we have a Tory government again. That's pretty shit too.

Its very obvious that FPTP is a deeply flawed system.

MissMooMoo · 08/05/2015 09:51

of course its shit for Scotland but I fail to understand why the people of Scotland decided Labour wasn't good enough for them but would have been good enough for the rest of the UK ?(I say that as a person who voted Labour)

Original poster
SaucyJack · 08/05/2015 09:53

But at least you were part of the electorate that voted the Tories in up in Scotland.

We had no say over the SNP in England- or Wales come to think of it.

That's the difference.

OP posts:
ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 08/05/2015 09:53

Because Labour is (laughably) the most left wing party in England. Unfortunately for the English they had no viable alternatives. (Unless you are saying SNP should have stood in rUK?)

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 08/05/2015 09:54

So you think that SNP/Plaid Cymru/Scottish Greens/NI parties should not be allowed to stand in general elections?

NormaStits · 08/05/2015 09:54

My problem with it is that they have taken left voters from labour but without ever having the chance of gaining majority seats because they can't stand in the whole of the UK. So they're splitting the left, meaning that overall, the Tories are naturally going to get more seats.

I don't blame the Scots who have voted for them but it seriously affects left politics across the UK.

And I do agree, OP, I think it's unfair that a party that can only stand in part of the country can have such a say over all of the country. I've nothing against the SNP as such, but the system.

DamnBamboo · 08/05/2015 09:55

No, it is neither fair nor democratic.
Whether not not nobody in Scotland voted Tory is academic. Other large parts of the UK won't have voted Tory but they also have a Tory government so this is not different.

What is also ridiculous is that the SNP got just shy of 1.5 million votes and have 56 seats in the house. What the hell is that all about.

UKIP got 3.5 million votes but just 1 seat.

MissMooMoo · 08/05/2015 09:56

no not saying snp should stand anywhere other than Scotland, just annoyed that I have seen posts saying Scotland won all the snp seats but we still have a tory majority, the rest of the UK decided the same thing as Scotland did that a Labour gvt wasn't what they wanted.

DamnBamboo · 08/05/2015 09:56

I fail to understand why the people of Scotland decided Labour wasn't good enough for them but would have been good enough for the rest of the UK ?(I say that as a person who voted Labour)

^

This

littlejessie · 08/05/2015 09:58

Time for electoral reform.

Brilliant result in Scotland.

DamnBamboo · 08/05/2015 10:02

Brilliant result in Scotland

^

Many would disagree of course!

Nosyman94 · 08/05/2015 10:03

Just to throw this put there - if labour had gained very seat in Scotland they still would have lost. So not our fault. Happy to help. Get it up you etc etc.

Nosyman94 · 08/05/2015 10:04

Out*

awaynboilyurheid · 08/05/2015 10:04

Terrible result in Scotland, and I missed the mass brainwashing which means I believe they can solve all problems and cure the common cold feel sorry for you in England but not as much as I do for us with them in power here. As I said in another thread IABU to hope the Queen says F off and take the SNP with you ?

DamnBamboo · 08/05/2015 10:05

Sorry posted too soon. Either it's time for electoral reform, in which case the representation of the Scotland in parliament as a whole (and subsequently that of the SNP will drop substantially), or it's a good result as it is, in which case why would you want to reform it.

Makes no sense.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 08/05/2015 10:05

I fail to understand why the people of Scotland decided Labour wasn't good enough for them but would have been good enough for the rest of the UK ?(I say that as a person who voted Labour)

Scotland rejected Labour and moved left. England rejected Labour and moved right. Labour would have been best option for England as they are (slightly) left of Tories

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett · 08/05/2015 10:06

I've just sorted the results by % share and it's hard to avoid the conclusion that fptp is fundamentally flawed. It really isn't fair that UKIP got 12% of the vote and 1 seat*, Green got 1% less overall than the SNP and have one seat...

I think electoral reform has to be on the agenda.

*This does NOT mean I would welcome more UKIP seats, just that the system isn't fair

DamnBamboo · 08/05/2015 10:06

So not our fault

who said it was?

SquiddlyDiddlyDoo · 08/05/2015 10:07

if nothing else it's now time for an English assembly or similar. We cant have 50+ SNP MPs voting things in that cost English people more and then voting them out in parliament etc.

TheChandler · 08/05/2015 10:13

You think that's bad? Try voting in a Scottish constituency! Even the campaigning by the SNP and their rent-a-mob and cybernats is abusive.

I'm totally over-represented politically. I have an MP, an MSP, an MEP and some local councillor, and they are all career politicians who are basically useless at doing anything other than stirring up division, passing legislation to control people and towing the party line.

That is assuming that the Scottish version of the Electoral Commission actually received my overseas postal vote in time, after sending it out so late. Scotland doesn't even provide me with a job, still want my taxes and nearly destroyed my right to vote!

DamnBamboo · 08/05/2015 10:13

if nothing else it's now time for an English assembly or similar. We cant have 50+ SNP MPs voting things in that cost English people more and then voting them out in parliament etc

Completely agree! But some would argue that a Central government would then become a useless figurehead with all major decisions being made by the English, without anybody else being able to have a say. If we think PR is fairer, then surely this is to be expected.

You can't have it both ways...

MissMooMoo · 08/05/2015 10:20

don't think anyone on this thread suggested it was Scotland's fault we got a tory majority

CatOfTheWoods · 08/05/2015 10:23

I'm in Scotland and voted Labour. I don't have a problem with the SNP winning all those seats in a democratic vote, and actually I think Sturgeon is great – a very good leader for Scotland. The SNP is a regional party and its role in UK politics is to represent Scotland's interests at Westminster – that is fair. Since the SNP's ultimate aim is independence, you can hardly accuse them of trying to take over the UK. They are just trying to get what they want for Scotland and they have a lot of support.

BUT I'm not happy with the thug elements of the SNP and the bullying behaviour that can happen. My DP is already being jeered at and bullied on facebook (I don't FB) for "letting the side down" and supporting labour in Scotland, and that's just a tiny example. I know people who have left FB and twitter because not being SNP makes you fair game for nastiness. I'm really worried about living in a Scotland where that atmosphere will prevail – I'm fine with it politically, and I would be fine if all SNP supporters were like Nicola Sturgeon, but on a personal, everyday level it sucks that there's a very non-democratic attitude – you will be SNP or you will be bullied, silenced and ideally chased out of Scotland. (I stress that's not all SNP supporters – but it's there. It's also the main reason I voted No.)

The FPTP system exists to do exactly what it has done as regards UKIP – keep minority extreme right or left parties to a minimum. While a party like that will appeal to a good number of bigots across the board, it's unlikely to represent the interests of one particular community – constituency-based, FPTP elections tend to reflect local issues and interests. Immigration, UKIP's primary concern, is not a particularly local issue (though people may think it is) as evidenced by the fact that you are more likely to vote UKIP if you live somewhere with lower immigration.

The FPTP system isn't "fair", it's designed to work in a particular way.

comeonpilgrim · 08/05/2015 10:24

YABU.
The snp have taken seats from labour but the whole "splitting the left" argument is irrelevant. Even if we returned 59 Labour seats the end result would have been the same.

As for them having the third biggest say on policies, they have a small fraction of the say compared to Labour and Tory when it comes to votes in the Commons. Also, if you read the manifestos, SNP and Labour agree on a lot anyway and will probably vote the same way on a lot of policies.

I voted SNP after being a lifelong labour voter, and the very best we could hope for would have been a Labour government. That would have been "good enough". It would have been bloody wonderful. Unfortunately, England did not elect enough Labour MPs. Again.